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Ground-zero strip clubs and the LDS argument for the mosque

by Eric Peterson
- Posted // 2010-08-17 -

The Village Voice, our alt-weekly cohort from New York City presents a new argument to the ground-zero mosque debate—that the “hallowed ground” really ain’t so.

What’s the difference between a gentleman’s club, an off-track betting site, a Burger King, a bunch of tacky gift stands profiting on cheap 9/11 memorabilia and the proposed site of the controversial Cordoba Institute? Yeah that’s right, the house of Islamic worship/community center isn’t good enough for the “hallowed grounds” of Ground Zero, compared to the other reverent institutions of respect and patriotism mentioned as blogged by Foster Kramer of the Village Voice and illustrated by the above map courtesy of Tumblr editor Topher Chris.

As for the local bloggers, Bob Aagard’s The World According To Me has got the ultimate trump card to play on Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nevada, and the top most ranking Mormon Democrat, who recently spoke against the placement of the Mosque. The blogger, a Mormon himself had to remind Harry of a little thing written by LDS Prophet Joseph Smith called the 11th article of faith which reads:

“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.”

Writes Aagard: “So, as an American who loves the Constitution and as a Mormon, I believe that the Islamic Community Center should be allowed to be built, even if it is two blocks away from Ground Zero.”

Amen.

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REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
Dennis
Posted // August 19,2010 at 21:51

It is embarassing as a LDS to see how many don't get it the way the blogger does.

Nevermind the basic "conservative small government" idea that private citizens using private funds to build something on their private property is not a matter for public debate and discourse.

I think it's ridiculous to call it hallowed ground surrounded by strip clubs and the like. And for the person arguing that it is in fact ground zero since it was damaged in the attack - no one who goes to NYC to visit "Ground Zero" goes to this site. No one. That area is just out of range for tourists and mourners and the like. And frankly, no one would be talking about it today if it wasn't being replaced by an Islamic anything. No one would bat an eyelash if they were going to build a swinger's club or porn shop or some other much more morally upstanding institution.

We all know and no one will deny that nobody would have a problem if it were any other religion involved here, and everyone of us knows from the AoF and the Constitution that it is wrong to single out the Muslims. And we should be weary of this sort of thing especially, because many of the same people fighting the Muslims here would like to marginalize us as well. You know, cause we're "not Christian".

 

REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
gary
Posted // August 19,2010 at 14:35

true

 

REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
It_Matters
Posted // August 18,2010 at 06:17

The point is being missed. I am Mormon and support the development of a religious or other improvement on privately owned land.

Those who debase opponents of the development are mostly missing the main point cited by opponents. The point is NOT about religious freedom or protected land rights. Most thinking people acknowledge that the privately owned land can be developed as anything the local ordinances will allow.

The point is NOT specifically about Islam. That said, the opponents would not be as numerous or vocal if the planned development were of another religious faith.

The point IS this. If the mosque is built at the current planned site, its presence will inflame the pain and sorrow already felt by the survivors of 911. It will be a constant reminder that a small group of extreme believers actions cost thousands of lives. It is insenitive, good sense and common consideration to not build the mosque so close to this historic site.

So while I believe it to be both legal and protected, building at that site is a mistake.

 

Bob Henline
Posted // August 18,2010 at 14:25 - So your argument is that law-abiding peaceful people should not build a place of worship on land that they own because a group of fanatics did something heinous and stupid? Should all Christians then opt to not build their own houses of worship near the Christian church where Dr. George Tiller was assassinated by a fringe-Christian? Perhaps the church in which Dr. Tiller was slain should be torn down, as that one act apparently stains the entire Christian faith? Will this center potentially inflame passions? Probably. Such is the price of freedom. I support the right of free speech as well, even though most of what is said tends to inflame me with its sheer stupidity. I don't question your wisdom in expressing your opinion, nor do I question your right to do so.

 

avd
Posted // August 18,2010 at 13:36 - I agree. While surely nothing legal should keep these people from doing what they want, it's called morals and respect. This just shows how ignorant and insensitive Muslims are to others. Surely the Catholic church could build a cathedral in Germany where all the holocaust victims were executed, but they don't because they know it would hurt others. If you think Muslims are difficult now, just wait until they spread like viruses and start demanding sharia law.

 

REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
Tracy Hall Jr
Posted // August 17,2010 at 17:24

Kudos to Bog Aagard for calling out Reid for violating his own creed, and kudos to you for spotlighting it.

I am very disappointed that my fellow Latter-day Saints, Harry Reid and Mitt Romney, usually political opposites, have both waffled to mob opinion on this issue.

Surely both of them are aware of the danger that such a stand presents to Mormonism, which has often been lumped with Islam as a "suspicious" religion.

As Aagard mentioned, it is becoming increasingly difficult for Latter-day Saints to build temples or even ordinary houses of worship. Romney in particular, as an LDS leader in Boston, personally experienced that kind of bigoted opposition to the construction of the Boston LDS temple, which had to be dedicated without its steeple. Anti-Mormon hostility in Boston reverberates to this day in opposition to a planned LDS meetinghouse in the Jewish neighborhood of Fisher Hill. How could Romney forget so soon!

I gave modest financial support to Romney in the last election, I'm still on his mailing list, and I just sent him a piece of my mind.

As for me, I absolutely agree with Mormonism's 11th Article of Faith! Let them worship how, WHERE, or what they may!

Tracy Hall Jr

hthalljr'gmail'com

 

REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
Biff
Posted // August 17,2010 at 16:22

I wonder what LDS folk would think if the Francher-Baker families decided that Cedar City was too close to the hallowed ground of the Mountain Meadow Massacre and therefore no ward houses should be built there. Oh wait, no need to wonder, they would go completely ape shit.

 

BlackMamba
Posted // August 20,2010 at 09:34 - And you miss my point: The over-the-top rhetoric, like "demolished," is part of the problem. There were many buildings struck with debris and I mean MANY. Does that make all locations struck by some sort of crash debris a "sacred" site to be protected from future development depending on the developers' religion?

 

Diana
Posted // August 19,2010 at 17:15 - It was ONLY 'struck by landing gear?" Close enough for me, buddy, close enough for me. ...and I don't I made myself clear, here. I think that these people have all the right in the world to build this mosque where they want to. That doesn't make their building it any less an egregious, in-your-face, insensitive insult. My point was that those who advocate building it here, especially when (as you mention) there IS a mosque within four blocks, is that they are attempting to continue the 'attack' in other ways, including this blatant setting up for attack. They WILL be attacked. You know this. I know this...more importantly, THEY know this, and, like Biff, above, they expect the world to then completely ignore the 3000 people deas on 9/11 and start pounding on whatever bit of nastiness is done to them. It's not, in other words, 'stupid.' It's actually rather brilliant...and I'm not even especially prone to conspiracy theories. It's just that (again, as Biff is a prime example) martyrdom is SOP with Muslim extremists, so they are setting themselves up for some. They win, you see; if they build it there, using money from the very extremists who supported the 9/11 terrorists, and dedicate it on the 10th anniversary of 9/11...I fail to see how they could be more insulting, do you? So..they win. If, after this is done, someone attacks the mosque (and it will happen) they win again. If I had the money, I'd donate it to the mosque builders--to build next door to the Burlington Coat factory. Shoot, I'd encourage them to build next door to ME...but I see nothing but very bad things from this one. Just watch.

 

BlackMamba
Posted // August 19,2010 at 16:06 - Diana, please! The Burlington Coat Factory building was struck by a piece of landing gear. The pictures of the building you see in the news are fresh. Does it look "demolished" to you? There's already a mosque within 4 blocks of the hole called "Ground Zero." I personally don't think it's a very good idea, but it's really the business of the people of New York, not outside agitators, busybodies and ignorant "patriots." A poll of residents in Soho, Tribecca and Manhattan shows that they don't really care. I mean, in your most paranoid, Fox News seizure, the people of those neighborhoods would be the ones exposed to a secret attack from within the walls of the Muslim Cultural Center. How come they don't seem to care as much as say, you seem to care? Really...why is that?

 

Diana
Posted // August 19,2010 at 14:28 - THERE is the reason the mosque should not be built, right there, and THERE is the reason that, I believe, the extremist Muslims WANT it built there. First: that "Burlington Coat FActory" building is not "2 1/2 blocks from ground zero." Since it was demolished by one of the planes that took down the WTC, It IS 'ground zero." Second, the Muslims do have the constitutional and legal right to build there, if they can get the property. It's an insult, it's about as 'in your face' as you can get, and it's deliberate in more than one way. That said, let's get to your comment: you have utterly dismissed the murder and persecution of literally thousands of Mormons in the 1800's: the fact that their neighbors drove them from one place to another, until they were literaly driven from the nation. You ignore the fact that the then Governor of Missourri, Lilburn Boggs, issued an extermination order (his term, not mine!) ordering the extermination of all Mormons in that state...an order that was not rescinded until 1976, by the way. You ignore the fact that Pres. Buchanan sent half the US armed forces against the Mormons in order to remove and arrest Brigham Young. You forget that the Mountain Meadows episode happened right in the middle of that army march, when the Utahns were getting ready, yet AGAIN, to be attacked by their neighbors. But a few extremist Mormons in southern Utah committed an inexcusable act; they attacked and murdered over 200 innocent people who were traveling on a wagon train, and because of that, people like you have decided that everything done TO us before that was deserved; that we had it coming to us because of what we were about to do. This is what the people who want to build this mosque here want. They KNOW that the insult they are about to give us is so big, so egregious, that some fringe idiot out there WILL attack it. It will get burned down, or bombed, or at least be the target of some nasty graffiti, and that will suddenly make what happened on 9/11/2001 meaningless. The entire Muslim world (and a bunch of other people, as well) will consider that what happened on 9/11 is justified by what someone will do to the mosque later. Don't think it will happen? Look at your post. That is exactly what will happen.

 

 
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