Occupy SLC Decries Eviction to SLC Council

Posted // November 19,2011 at 10:55 - RUNNYMEDE-CONCORD-ZUCCOTTI

 

Posted // November 17,2011 at 14:54 - Sorry, Bill. Didn't mean to insinuate that I'd not continue this discussion with you. I'm happy to discuss anything with you at any time. Even when we don't necessarily agree (a good thing!), you're always thoughtful and approach things with intelligence. Anyway...

 

Posted // November 17,2011 at 13:07 - Hey, Bill. I was hoping you'd join in.


I've seen the press insert meaning for the movement, too, negative and positive. But that doesn't work for me and I don't think it's working for the majority of us. I want the movement to assert its own meaning because I am truly interested in lasting political change, not just messing things up, not just being pissed off in general - I did that plenty earlier in life and it ensured nothing but pain. I'd love to be a part of something that will foment real change.


But I have no interest in throwing my hat in with what primarily appears to be a bunch of ill-informed lemmings. I can throw myself off a cliff without being part of a group, if I am so inclined.


I know there are smart people involved. Locally, take Jesse Fruworth (sorry about the spelling, Jesse) for example. He's smart and has lots to offer. What I cannot understand is why the smart people, instead of being detrimentally Democratic, have not given the average individual (the herd) something to do, something to go on, something to accomplish. If we're expecting Mr. Average to come up with a good plan, we've got no hope. Mr. Average is a blind idiot.


Do these people seriously think they're being informative with all the chanting and sitting in bank lobbies (their own banks, no less!) and camping out in parks with far too many hangers-on (I could post a separate essay on the parasitic hangers-on)? I do not see it. The average American knows things are not fair and have not been fair for decades. What of it? What has the average American done about it other than get theirs, at the expense of others, while the getting is good. The average American didn't give a shit about anything until the average American's cut was threatened. And beyond their "cut", I still don't think the average American gives a shit.


The fact is that Occupy isn't scaring anybody because they have no game plan. Wall Street is not afraid of these guys. Why would they be? This is a local affliction (a zit on a very big ass) and Wall Street, whether these protesters realize it or not, is an international affair.


Do any of then have any clue what would happen to the world if Wall Street were literally shut down for good? World-wide chaos; riots; civil war; mass starvation; an end to energy production; the literal death of our time. They don't see that, to beat the animal, they must become the animal and beat it on its own turf. Where's all the freshly graduated political theorists, philosophers, corporate and constitutional lawyers? Are they screaming for our own death, too?


Sure, Occupy may be able to get together a unified vote and support some candidate filled with highfalutin promises, but then we just end up with another schmuck like Obama in charge and find that he was full of shit all along and that nothing is going to change. I'll bet well over half of Occupy in general votes for Obama again, expecting a different outcome.


This country was sold for a price in 1913 and it's been going downhill ever since. Corporations own our politicians, Obama included, and direct policy at nearly every turn. This has been true for decades.

And while corporations have been doing this, what has the average American been doing? Demanding cheaper prices for junk they don't need, pushing corporations to provide the masses with what they want by looking to produce products more cheaply by moving factories overseas, utilizing slave labor, utilizing the cheapest possible ingredients and products, thrashing the environment in the process, etc; purchasing $350K dollar homes worth $120K on a $12 dollar-an-hour salary, just because they could, and then blaming the bank that lent them the money when their idiotic, greedy decision kicks them in the head; spending themselves silly on credit, buying worthless garbage, ensuring that they'll live in debt for the remainder of their lives; turning their backs on that debt via bankruptcy, forcing the debt on others, washing their hands of it and then doing the same damn thing all over again. And on and on and this and more is exactly what I am referring to when I demand that these people admit to their contribution to this massive, disgusting mess.

Through our collective greed and ignorance, we've all enriched and built up the very corporations we now decry. I'll never join with people that refuse to accept responsibility for their actions and behavior and, from what I can see, these people are doing no such thing.


Jebus. Can't do this anymore right now. But I will engage with Occupy if it has anything, other than bumper-sticker quotes, to say for itself. Otherwise, life goes on.

 

Posted // November 17,2011 at 11:51 - Much has been made about a lack of purpose or point to the protests, but I see it boiled-down to three or four points in the press all the time: It's an awareness campaign first; an action campaign next and that action has to be at the polls. They aren't trying to quilt a message blanket and the drum-thing, please, you make people annoyed, not inspired. Sounds like a really irritating drumline half-time show at the local high school.

But the point is they are out, they are making noise about corporate ownership of our country and government and courts and it's nice to see young and old joining to tell the influence peddlers and lobbyists and whores in Congress and Wall Street that we have had it and we aren't going to go away, no matter how many times Fox News hosts pretend they just don't
understand "what these people want?"

Just because you stick a microphone in someone's face and ask them to define a movement or belief system doesn't mean you're going to get a succinct, satisfying answer. How many times did Tea Partiers look stupid and ignorant on camera? They shouted the same words about 'liberty' and 'freedom' and 'small government' and 'no taxes.' But when pressed for details, none of them could ever explain it.

Sometimes in life you have a gut feeling that a situaiton is just wrong and you want to do something about it but you aren't sure how to proceed. So you join a group of like-minded people who are trying to do something about it. It's not perfect and it's not backed by corporations and lobbyists and a conservative television network, like the TP and it has no apparent figurehead like Sarah Palin or Michele Bachmann. That last little piece really upsets some people. What? No leader to name-call and dig dirt on?

I'm good with it. I hope it spreads and scares the living shit out of every corporate and congressional greed head in the world.

If OWS made Bank of America rethink charging monthly credit card fees recently, it's working.

 

Posted // November 17,2011 at 09:15 - Thank you for your thoughtful opinion, Justin. I agree with your observations except that I would disagree with one point you made in that Occupy has not identified anything that was not blatantly obvious, for years, beforehand.


Lionel, you are not Gandhi. This is not India. This is not the British Raj.


The fact that you're only capable of coughing up a feeble quote that may or may not be attributed to Gandhi in response to my comments proves that you are woefully ignorant of your own situation.


I've not had one, single, thoughtful response from anybody within the Occupy movement, SLC or otherwise, though I've been fair and respectful with my observations and comments. I can only guess that this is because none of you actually have anything thoughtful to say. And I can only attribute that to the fact that Occupy, as a whole, doesn't seem to be doing much thinking at all.


You can throw out all the quotes from the world's finest leaders that you like. But what do you expect to gain by using the words of other people, most of whom are long gone? Where are YOUR ideas? Where are YOUR words?


You're just quoting bumper stickers. Occupy is a bumper sticker, a protest chant, a placard. Occupy is more noise in a noisy world.

 

Posted // November 16,2011 at 17:19 - I'm with Duke on this one. I'm not a Conservative in any way. I haven't voted for a single Republican for any office since 1992. I would describe myself as being politically liberal, but before that, I describe myself as rational and pragmatic. These Occupy movements fail to engage me on any kind of intellectual level. It has every appearance of a pseudo-religious movement, consisting of a core of self-righteous True Believers convinced of their own importance and moral superiority.

I think that the Occupy movement has identified many more of the problems that this country faces than the Tea Party thrown out so far. But I'm not looking to join a religious movement, or camp in a park, or paint protest signs, or think up yet one more creative chant while there is real work to get done.

Give me the facts. Talk to me about problems. Tell me how you want me to help you fix them.

 

Posted // November 19,2011 at 07:45 - Economist Jeffrey Sachs states - the Occupy movement is “the start of a new era in America,” where the 99-per-cent utopians would get to “tax the rich, end the wars and restore honest and effective government for all.”

 

Posted // November 16,2011 at 15:58 - “first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” (attributed to Gandhi, though it’s hard to verify this online)

 

Posted // November 16,2011 at 11:26 - Comments like these help turn people away from you and your undefined cause. It has happened to me and I was all for Occupy when I first learned about it.

I'm no huge fan of Becker but I feel he has been fair in allowing the protesters to remain in the park, against city rules, in order to maintain a presence, which is all you guys were doing in the first place. You weren't doing anything other than sitting around. If you were doing something other than that, let's hear about it.

You folks claim that your rights are being violated in that you are not allowed to gather peaceably and protest on public grounds. This is not true. You've been given every opportunity and still have that opportunity but, because it isn't exactly what you want, you refuse to utilize it. That is childish. You're still welcome to maintain a public presence but won't. What does that say about you and your group?

I am pleased with Chief Burbank's performance, noting that his actions have been measured, fair, and balanced. You were given two day's notice to vacate the park after some moron OD'd - while asphyxiating himself - in his tent. When the time to vacate arrived, the police showed in force (of course they did!), but not dressed in riot gear or anything else that would indicate they intended to kick your collective asses (as they have done in other cities). And how do you guys respond to the police doing their job and doing it well? By chanting about police brutality and "this is what a police state looks like." Stupid. You have no clue how bad it can get in a real police state and comparing this event to a police state is an insult to those that suffer under such rule. Had this been a police state, you and everybody else in that park would be in jail (indefinitely) or dead.

If you knew me, you'd know that I am no lover of authority or the police in general. You'd also know that I share your angst (have for years and years and figure it's about time you people woke up, though I have my doubts that most of you are actually awake). You would also know that I am as fair in my views as possible and, even if I were speaking about an enemy, I would nonetheless speak with honesty.

When you guys are ready to actually do something positive, instead of sit in a park and whine all day, let me know, I'll join you. When you're able to look at yourselves and your parents and your grandparents and admit your part (admit to your own greed) in producing this society you hate, let me know. The people in charge could never have done what they've done without the people's participation.

When you organize a useful movement and allow those with the skills to positively and effectively direct the movement (you're badly in need of competent leaders), let me know, I'll join you, I'll apply my skills and will work with you.

This society will only change through legal and political actions and until you guys are ready to accept that fact, you're wasting your time, and you're wasting tax dollars.

You state that, "We Can Win!" What is it you can win, exactly? I've asked this before and received no answer: What in the hell do you want, exactly? Until you can show what it is you want, specifically, I have no interest in listening to you. So far, collectively, you've proven yourselves to be selfish obstructionists and destructive jerks, fully prepared to interrupt the lives of other hard working Americans (you know, the 99%) so that you can have your 15 minutes in a very vague spotlight.