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Home / Articles / News / News Articles /  News | Somethin’s Happening Here: Salt Lake City’s gay-rights movement may have reached a tipping point.
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Wednesday, November 19,2008

News | Somethin’s Happening Here: Salt Lake City’s gay-rights movement may have reached a tipping point.

By Ted McDonough
California’s Proposition 8 woke a sleeping gay army in Utah. So says Jacob Whipple, organizer of the first of several Salt Lake City rallies that followed passage of the ballot measure banning gay marriage. n

Whipple’s call brought thousands out on a freezing night to march around the headquarters of the LDS Church, which had urged its members to support passage of Proposition 8. But rather than letting off steam, it seems that march might have been the start of something big. Nov. 15 brought two more rallies, at City Hall and at Utah’s Capitol. It is impossible to keep up with the new Utah organizations, protests and lobbying groups growing around the issue of gay marriage. A new nonprofit group was recently incorporated in California with the aim of organizing a 1963-style march on Salt Lake City at the spring equinox.

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The emotions moving people to the streets is even out of the control of Utah’s established gay-rights groups. Many Utahns now organizing around Proposition 8 are first-time activists; several aren’t even gay.

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For Elaine Ball, organizer of the Nov. 15 rally at the Salt Lake City & County Building, it was the sight of a black man being elected president the same night that California stripped gays of existing marriage rights that drove her to action. She happened upon a Website for Join the Impact, a group organizing city-hall protests throughout the country, and in two days found herself organizing Utah’s event. Though she had worked on the Obama campaign, it’s the first time the 23-year-old University of Utah linguistics student had taken the lead on anything. Ball sees gay marriage as her generation’s civil-rights battle. “This is everyone standing together saying, ‘Gay rights are my rights,’” she says.

n

In addition to rallies and sign carrying, Proposition 8 has caused the formation of a lobbying group dedicated to bringing gay marriage to the Beehive State. Like the rallies, Utahns for Marriage Equality was created on the fly through the magic of social networking on the Internet. Michael Muellera straight, married Salt Lake City architect with a gay cousin who married in Massachusetts—started Utahns Against Prop. 8 in October and helped to organize get-out-the-vote telephone calls to California. Within days of the election, the group had morphed into Utahns for Marriage Equality, which already has met with a core group of volunteers to create a lobbying strategy. Item 1 is to lobby for a list of legislative proposals put forward by the long-established Equality Utah that would give legal protections to gay couples short of marriage.

n

“Proposition 8 has transformed a gay-rights movement to where now it’s a civil-rights movement,” Mueller says.

n

Whipple’s activism was galvanized by watching protests in West Hollywood following the Proposition 8 election. “I was astounded the gay community was actually standing up for itself,” says the 29 year old. The California protests made his annual donation to the Human Rights Campaign look pale by comparison, he says. What ended with thousands outside of the LDS Church headquarters began with Whipple e-mailing a few friends asking them to stand with him in protest.

n

A North Carolina Mormon who came to Utah to attend BYU, hoping the experience would “straighten” him, Whipple has been out for just six years. Following his first rally, he’s organizing a second for Jan. 24, the weekend after the presidential inauguration. Now linked up with nationwide activists through the Internet, Whipple is helping to organize rallies at city halls and statehouses throughout the country to call for a slate of legislation like the landmark mid-1960s laws that erased the vestiges of Jim Crow for blacks. Eventually, he wants a rally in Washington, D.C., aimed at pushing President Barack Obama to junk the federal Defense of Marriage Act and to add gays to federal nondiscrimination laws “with full inclusion of all GLBT members.”

n

Whipple’s language is idealistic. “This is a really great opportunity to stand up and do something that will forever change history, to ensure constitutional rights for future generations.”

n

He began his speech to the crowd at the Nov. 7 rally at City Creek Park by thanking the Mormon Church for backing Proposition 8. With many, he believes the California ballot measure has mobilized Utahns in way that the Utah’s own 2004 anti-gay marriage constitutional amendment couldn’t.

n

“Utah, though it doesn’t know it yet, is one of the largest gay population areas per capita in the country,” he says. “I see Salt Lake City being one of the areas of major demonstrations in this movement, along with L.A., San Francisco and New York.”

n

So does Shawn Cunningham. The Menlo Park, Calif., marketer created the “March on Salt Lake City” page on Facebook after Proposition 8 passed. The idea—an intentional reflection of the 1963 March on Washington, only with Utah as a landing spot for activists from throughout the country—is gathering momentum. A straight man with a gay mother, Cunningham was inspired by his mother’s crestfallen look at the passage of Proposition 8 so soon after he shared her elation at the election of Barack Obama. He is working with Utah activists on gathering permits for a weekend’s worth of activities in late March and lining up homes in Salt Lake City as a backstop in case the hotels fill up.

n

Cunningham is trying to distance his march from calls to boycott Utah, which he calls “totally counterproductive.” Cunningham, as a marketer, thinks the symbolism of Utah to gay liberation is too powerful to ignore. To Cunningham and many others outside of the Beehive State, Utah symbolizes a mindset that has to go. His point is to move gay marriage away from a religious discussion to one of civil rights.

n

“Utah chose itself,” says Cunningham, who worked in Utah for five years in the early 1990s. “Here we have a state that literally owes its entire being to a people who were chased across America in pursuit of freedom of expression now using their influence and economic power and organization to hold down the rights of others. It’s the perfect venue.” tttt

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It might not be apparent to UT residents and LDS elders, but when you attack OUR (gays/lesbians) families, and attempt to strip us of our Constitutional Rights under the equal protection clause, you made EVERY other minority whether racial, ethnic, religious, disabled NERVOUS that under another initiative THEIR hard fought for equal rights could also VANISH with a 50 plus 1 vote,nI’ve seen a coalition of African American groups, Latino groups, Asian groups, Native American groups, and today Jewish groups all moving to knock down Prop 8.nnHere are 50 Jewish movers and shakers who are the latest to lend their voices to the cause.n http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/ftr/boycott.htmlnnbtw. LGBTs are the MOST diverse minority, we are born in EVERY race, ethnicity, religion, we are LOVED and respected from members of EVERY group, including Church of Latter-Day Saints.

 

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Mark, the blacks and Latinos didn’t get your NERVOUS memo.nThey were too busy voting three to one to strip you of marriage.nSo how’s the single life treating you?nn(btw, did you get Rep. Franks note?)

 

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Savage et all have miscalculated in blaming LDS for their defeat in California.nAll that does is make the Mormons hero’s to all Americans (Blacks, Latinos, Catholics, Evangelicals, etc etc) who recognize the danger homosexuality presents to society.nIt is like a huge endorsement of Romney to the cultural conservatives of America.nHuckabee must be wetting his bloomers.nThanks Dan!!

 

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The SLEEPING ARMY may have snoozed a little too long.nCalling- General Rip Van Winkle!!nnSomeone may not have noticed that California wasn’t the first place to ban homosexual marriage, not just by law but by ammending the state constitution. Try 35th or so.nnThe strategy of relying on corrupt judges to over rule legislatures and popular referendums worked while it worked, but America has caught on and isn’t laughing.nnLike Rhett Butler, perhaps the HOMOSEXUAL LEGIONS have a weakness for doomed causes.nnCanada anyone?nDon’t let the door hit your fanny on the way out.

 

REPLY TO THIS COMMENT
To Just Sayin and Actually-nnDo you realize how insanely stupid and small-minded you two sound? How assinine and backward? I’m embarassed for both of you.nnGee, I’ll bet you’re Mormons, no? nnPart of the problem is that you both display the tried and true Mormon disease of thinking you’re better than anyone else. I’ve lived here for almost 60 years and you and your ilk are no better than anyone. In fact, just the opposite. You’re not as good as most non-Mormons I know.nnPlease! Someone explain to me, Actually and Just Spoutin’ Hate, how is homosexuality a danger to society? Homosexual legions?!?! What, are you 12?nnC’mon, one of you geniuses can answer that, can’t you? nnTake your laughable, comic book religion and mind your own business. 2008-11-20 12:42:51.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gordon B. Hinckley 76.164.29.214 BB765649-14D1-13A2-9FF761FC48CD868D B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 By their fruits so shall ye know them-nnSeems to me there are some who haven’t learned throwing rocks and stones do not create peace - sharing good fruit does...nnHow anyone can dismiss something as potentially life changing as this was for this woman, or pass hurtful judgement, never ceases to amaze me. Would we want to be treated that way if the roles were reversed?nnWith such a potential pearl of great price it seems to me a key point is missed-find out for yourself and not take anothers word for it- nnI personally like what I’ve read from Monicas comments- she figured out how to love and accept more people- why is that bad regardless of the source? How does a crock of shit produce such a change for the good? It doesn’t. Seems to me it is a crock of living waters we could all stand and drink from-nnWhat I’ve also learned an answer to from reading on my own is a question that has perplexed me since I was a child- How so many Religions can preach what they do and never seem to provide the answer to the question of How to ’Globally’ live the Golden Rule? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! - The Sealed Portion, The Final Testament of Jesus Christ [Which is NOT a Religion] leeds us to the solution to end poverty and inequality once and for all for all of Humanity! The answer is provided as it should be- Free of Charge, and takes only your signature to accomplish... WorldwideUnitedFoundation.org - or wwunited.org, Finally a super simple plan to fix this country and our global neighbors is within all our grasp IF we just find out for ourselves and not listen to those who pass uninformed judgement.nnThink for yourself for a moment... What if it IS true???nIt’s obvious it was for Monica- and which neighbor would we rather she be to all of us? The bigot or the golden neighbor she now is?nnGo DUO :-) 2008-11-20 12:52:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Johnny 98.202.68.180 BB7BE2A7-14D1-13A2-9F27DB87386F00E5 B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 I am amused that any book could free someone that had been indoctrinated their whole life to be prideful, judge others and hate all those who they don’t understand by such a church. nnThis story shows it is possible for one indoctrinated by the LDS church to see the bad fruit produced with in her self by its teachings. nnThis is a rare miracle, certainly a testimony of a work that frees the soul. nnI must congratulate Mrs. Smith for exercising the freedom of loving her brothers and sisters, not thinking she is better that others because they are different, and wishing others the same freedoms she enjoys. nnI must also congratulate SL Weekly for publishing a story that details the possibility of such a change. 2008-11-20 12:58:57.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 kurt 204.228.226.101 BB7CF871-14D1-13A2-9FE248F3AAC34106 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD To Ha!nnHow about you get the fuck out? Last time I heard, Utah was a state in the union, not the business property of your church.nnAnd take all the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing small-minded people who belong to your church with you. nnYou’re going to have lots of company in Hell. 2008-11-20 13:00:08.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gordon B. Hinckley 76.164.29.214 BB85531D-14D1-13A2-9FABBB61693EDE99 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC K-UtahnnSexual preference is a term not used in 2 DECADES.nIf you are going to battle queers in THIS Century, right out of the shoot, you shouldn’t demonstrate how out of touch you are with gays/lesbians. I’m suprised LDS folks don’t call us sodomites.nnIf you think Barney Frank a$$ jokes will calm a single LGBT person from boycotting your state, you are in for a BIG suprise.nBut by all means spew your anti-queer GARBAGE, it’s read by gays/lesbians and our allies, and guess who looks like the HATEFUL BIGOTS? 2008-11-20 13:09:16.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BB87580B-14D1-13A2-9F9254568E8C34A3 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC 1600 miles away from Utah?nnWe have a name for those people who take the time to invade a conversation and have nothing of any value to add.nnFUCKING TROLLS. 2008-11-20 13:11:28.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gordon B. Hinckley 76.164.29.214 BB899854-14D1-13A2-9F7C0C0793C6CB20 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC K..... do put rubber on before bed,,,,,,,,, I know your woman just wondering where you nput it.... Thanks... 2008-11-20 13:13:56.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 I eat pussy 12.148.99.130 BB8DFAAC-14D1-13A2-9FB6586FFE1A82AE B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC utah = eyes wide shutnnc’ya in a year or two when Provo forclosures jump from a mere 2000% increase to a 5000% NEW INCREASE.nnwhen Sundance Film Festival either ceases to exist or is located in another State.nnwhen the Salt Palace Convention schedule is as barren as driving back from Wendover, NV to Salt Lake City hungover at 6 am. 2008-11-20 13:18:43.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BB96C29D-14D1-13A2-9F65FEBC19536429 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC As for my being 1600 miles away, that’s peanuts. There are videos on several LGBT sites which show AMERICANS LGBTs in several European nations pledging their support against prop 8.nnDid you miss 300 cities having rallies against prop8 on Saturday? ALL 50 States, calculate their distance from Utah, it’ll give you something to do before your economy melts down. 2008-11-20 13:28:18.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BB9BC406-14D1-13A2-9F02267FA29EAE7B B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Mark, Eyes wide shut? Can you read? Perhaps you should open your eyes.nnBut by all means spew your anti-queer GARBAGE, it’s read by gays/lesbians and our allies, and guess who looks like the HATEFUL BIGOTS? You directed this to me, however if you read my comments you would no I am not anti-queer... I’m anti-idiot (gay or straight), and validating a slam because of an out of touch term is juvenile.nYou’re just looking for someone to hate because you’re butthurt. Hey, it’s fine but you could make sure that you’re not slamming innocent bystanders when you go around shooting your mouth.nnREAD before JUDGING. Your comment here only proves that you’re blind. Go away. 2008-11-20 13:33:47.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 K in Utah 76.23.29.109 BB9D81E0-14D1-13A2-9F73E68E4485E12F B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Mark, your hatred will only take you to the same place it takes everybody else that embraces it with such enthusiasm. nnYou’re no better than those you hate. You’re the same animal. 2008-11-20 13:35:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 . 32.97.110.51 BBA697AD-14D1-13A2-9F8271097F95330E B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Mark = Church Lady nnI live 1600 miles away, Church LadynnAs for my being 1600 miles away... MarknnCute. 2008-11-20 13:45:36.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 K in Utah #2 76.23.29.109 BBA87ED7-14D1-13A2-9FC7445ADD021696 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC K, my dear lady...........nAre you pluged up ??????????nTake deep breath push down...........nThings should come out just fine 2008-11-20 13:47:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 im pepper two 12.148.99.130 BBAD1CC8-14D1-13A2-9FCFA1EB40B5CCC6 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD If my use of the word fuck didnt clue you in to my religious affiliation nothing will. Ive rarely mean anything I write here. I rarely will. Im just here to fuck with people. I piss off the mormons one day and the gays the next. They all sound the same to me anymore and at this point they all deserve it. This is the internet where nothing is real, not even people. Youre all the same fucking nightmare to me. 2008-11-20 13:52:43.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ha! 32.97.110.51 BBAEE4F2-14D1-13A2-9FE6606AB5DA951A B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC That is the dumbest comment so far pepper. Who told you you were funny? They should be slapped. 2008-11-20 13:54:40.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 No <3, just H8 76.23.29.109 BBB3DBFC-14D1-13A2-9F1E879EDF3BC12B B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC no<3 just H8:nFunny, I was just trying to help the poor split licker...nWhere would you like to slap them.... 2008-11-20 14:00:06.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 i’m pepper two 12.148.99.130 BBB55415-14D1-13A2-9F710E1DA2098189 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Okay, I’m sorry. I am really stupid for everything I’ve said, and I apologize for my ignorance to all here. See, I haven’t gotten regular since my boyfriend left, and now I’m taking it all out on you Utah people.nI know that whether I have the right or not, no one will marry me because I am mentally unstable, and have severe emotional problems that cause me to hate EVERYBODY. My therapist says I say I’m gay because it gives me a good reason to separate myself from the entire world, so that I can be different, even if it means I have to take it in the ass every once in a while. 2008-11-20 14:01:42.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 76.23.29.109 BBBAB761-14D1-13A2-9F55E876D16784C3 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Mark:nThanks for last statement concerning the spot you receive the penis..nThe big question is do you swallow????????????? 2008-11-20 14:07:35.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 im pepper two 12.148.99.130 BBBCF0CE-14D1-13A2-9FD4AEDB4DA9A389 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Sure I do. What kind of queer doesn’t swallow? That’s a dumb question. 2008-11-20 14:10:01.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 76.23.29.109 BBBFA89E-14D1-13A2-9F9997B6CDFF1E37 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 Sorry...good nickname for yannMeanwhile, five civil rights groups asked California’s highest court Friday to annul the ban on the grounds that Proposition 8 threatens the legal standing of all minority groups, not just gays.nnThe NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, the Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund, the Asian Pacific American Legal Center and two other groups petitioned the state Supreme Court to prevent the change from taking effect.nnThe petition is the fourth seeking to have the measure invalidated. But it’s the first to argue that the court should step in because the gay marriage ban, which overturned the Supreme Court ruling that legalized gay unions, sets a precedent that could be used to undermine the rights of racial minorities.n http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081115/D94F46TG0.htmlnnHA!....*you can’t see the BIG Bill Kristol SMIRK on my face, but I assure you it’s there.* 2008-11-20 14:12:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BBC38C7E-14D1-13A2-9F4CE4CE0689DCC5 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders have a BIG suprise planned for you on Dec 10thnndo you know what it is?nnndidn’t think ya did 2008-11-20 14:17:14.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BBC45C19-14D1-13A2-9F609C0CF9F0F2B8 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Thanks Mark for clearing that up, not being fag I don’t know all the particulars.nI would guess you have man eat big cherry cand bar couple hours before he loads you up right !!! 2008-11-20 14:18:07.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 im pepper two 12.148.99.130 BBC7252E-14D1-13A2-9FC3C1F3763E2289 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD LovennnPlease? 2008-11-20 14:21:09.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Peace 32.97.110.51 BBCC2020-14D1-13A2-9F61CD3CC99D0BEB B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC STAND STAND STANDnnMeanwhile, five civil rights groups asked California’s highest court Friday to annul the ban on the grounds that Proposition 8 threatens the legal standing of all minority groups, not just gays.nnThe NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, the Mexican-American Legal Defense Fund, the Asian Pacific American Legal Center and two other groups petitioned the state Supreme Court to prevent the change from taking effect.nnThe petition is the fourth seeking to have the measure invalidated. But it’s the first to argue that the court should step in because the gay marriage ban, which overturned the Supreme Court ruling that legalized gay unions, sets a precedent that could be used to undermine the rights of racial minorities.nnnnnn http://apnews.myway.com/article/20081115/D94F46TG0.html 2008-11-20 14:26:36.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BBCE10EE-14D1-13A2-9F78DB53AE11A029 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC other mark who swallows....good to know, nnnsame time same stall at BYU? 2008-11-20 14:28:43.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BBD2AA6B-14D1-13A2-9F10DCCBB3DD5DF4 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Mark the ll.nI would bet you work at City weekly 2008-11-20 14:33:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 im pepper two 12.148.99.130 BBD8C1FB-14D1-13A2-9F2584FEF4D835BE B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Did it ever make you wonder why Out of State gays are the ones using their names DENOUNCING your LDS elders, and not queers INSIDE UT?nnBecause your G*D DAMN LDS elders still have the SAME goons sent to follow dissenters as they did when they MURDERED the guard watching the LDS elder who DARED to bring Blacks into your priesthood, and funny the NAACP lawsuit that followed was just before the MIRACLE that Blacks no longer bear the Mark of Cain, and they can be full members of LDS.nnwhat a coincidence. 2008-11-20 14:40:24.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BBDC9820-14D1-13A2-9F6936AEF36454B6 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 I am against gay marriage. Yet, there is no room for incivility by those who agree with my position, nor by those who oppose it.nnI love and appreciate one of my closest cousins who is gay. We talk, enjoy each other’s company, and respect each other. We strongly disagree on this issue, but we do not villify each other for our honest opinions.nnOn a separate note, it is brash immaturity, not to mention profoundly ignorant, to claim that all who oppose gay marriage are haters. Most of the best legal minds in the country are against gay marriage for wise legal reasons. Many very decent and good human beings who feel no hatred toward homosexuals also hold this position as a matter of religious, moral, or practical conscience. Others simply adhere to what they believe to be wisdom.nnTo persecute a man for holding a sincere opinion, not born of hate, will cause you to lose more battles even as you become what you claim to oppose.nnMore silly still is the frequently employed tactic of saying, Oh, you’re probably a Mormon, therefore I’ll just pretend like you didn’t say anything. First, intelligence requires that you address an argument with an argument, not an ad hominem attack. Second, only a minute percentage of those against gay marriage are Mormon. Such statements make one sound provincial.nnI understand why gays are frustrated by political efforts to oppose what they so desperately desire. I would be too. I cannot ignore what is right by supporting gay marriage, but I can, by putting myself in their shoes, show compassion, civility, patience, and respect. Not every difficulty, even the greatest of them, comes upon us by evil. The fact that what society has legislated is hard for some is not, therefore, evidence that it is wrong. But blindness on my part to this hardship would be. Gays are my brothers and sisters too. 2008-11-20 14:44:35.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Tim 67.182.230.99 BBDF8B40-14D1-13A2-9F0BE7110F59C158 B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 Matt. 25: 40 nAnd the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.nn***nWe never seem to learn.nnIn our ignorance,nnWe attack the messenger who shares His truth,nnAnd miss the message of love others as you would love yourself, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you. nnBy rejecting someone who shares His truth, He is again rejected,nnWe stay in darkness. nnWhen will we ever learn?nn***nnMay love overpower our jealousies, pettiness, bigotry, and unbelief.nnLove, peace and tolerance.nnYour brother and friend, 2008-11-20 14:47:48.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 John 63.146.74.167 BBE169D0-14D1-13A2-9F8788AACAC24958 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD Ha!nnSo you really are the rudderless, hateful, white, fat piece of shit that you sound like?nnIt’s called being a troll, boy.nnYou have no real, distinct knowledge of anything outside your bedroom walls, but you take the time to anonymoulsy slime your bullshit all over these forums?nnWonder what you’d sound like if you had to divulge your real email address or your computer’s IP address. I’ll bet the tough guy would piss down his pant legs, wouldn’t you? 2008-11-20 14:49:51.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gordon B. Hinckley 76.164.29.214 BBE2DC6C-14D1-13A2-9FC9A84BF7546F79 B5C8F55C-14D1-13A2-9FA7A0BDD7C1914B My concern is the vendicative attitude he took towards the hunter who left his child in his truck while he scouted game. A situation that can occur in rural Utah but aparentlly something struck the cord to incarcerate a father as punishment for what was already a tragic event. Without concern for the family he was totally instrumental in making the father feel unworthy of living. Driving him to suicide, just like his father. RED FLAG. Probation could have been an alternative, god knows every white coller embezzler gets less for the intentinal infliction of pain on a family. Does that comport with no guns on campus or just a bias towards anything involving a gun.nHe needs to address that tiny bias before saying that he’s a Whirling Blender. 2008-11-20 14:51:26.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Robin 75.169.121.30 BBE6F4F5-14D1-13A2-9F7D5EE21BD09F31 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC K-Utahnnonly the first paragraph of the post which upset you was directed at you, I should have been clearer. Since you weren’t the poster who made the Barney frank joke, I figured I had ceased directing it to you.nthe 1600 mile figure was on the site before I commented, I have no exact figure of BR to SLC, I know every summer from MN to UT was about 1200 mile trip one way. 2008-11-20 14:55:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC25DF54-14D1-13A2-9FB7F8E5D488A36A 91AA115C-14D1-13A2-9FA54AC9009E8C2A I’m feeling pretty angry over the Prop 8 vote and I really don’t blame people for wanting to boycott the state, even though SLC itself is a pretty tolerant place (drive south of Sugarhouse and it’s a different story). Since many in this state stuck their noses in someone else’s civil rights, we’ll have to pay the price of having a hateful and wacky attitude towards the GLBT community.nnWhat I don’t understand, though, is why a boycott isn’t also being called for California? It was despicable that many Mormons and Utahns funded the Prop 8 campaign, but it was also despicable that over half of California voters voted for it. 2008-11-20 16:04:37.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jenni 205.208.246.231 BC26AA7B-14D1-13A2-9F545FE542E539E5 B61B8FC4-14D1-13A2-9F12DD64797F2FAD I did some of my shopping at Cafe Pressnthey have an entire page of merchandise nnFIGHT the H8nnbest thing about Cafe Press, not a DIME goes to the State of Hate = Utah 2008-11-20 16:05:29.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC28C120-14D1-13A2-9F942D94FF3932DA B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD I’m feeling surprisingly angry over the Prop 8 vote (I’m straight, but progressive) and I really don’t blame people for wanting to boycott the state, even though SLC itself is a pretty tolerant place (drive south of Sugarhouse and it’s a different story). Since many in this state stuck their noses in someone else’s civil rights, we’ll all have to pay the price of having a hateful and wacky attitude towards the GLBT community and must continue to work towards tolerance if we wish to erradicate that reputation.nnWhat I don’t understand, though, is why a boycott isn’t also being called for California? It was despicable that many Mormons and Utahns funded the Prop 8 campaign, but it was also despicable that over half of California voters voted for it. 2008-11-20 16:07:46.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jenni 205.208.246.231 BC3D2A6D-14D1-13A2-9F3D53D612088F20 B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Get Real- the Barney Frank joke rocks. 2008-11-20 16:30:04.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Hey Dudes... 98.18.110.43 BC4B094F-14D1-13A2-9F49DF267101EE28 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD I wrote you a long note, explaining everything, but I chickened out. It was nice, written well. It reads well. You’d like it. But I can’t post it. It doesn’t belong here anyway. nnHow about I just promise to try and not fuck with people anymore. I mean it. I apologize and wish you well. nnMark! Listen here, man. You’re being a dick. I know that you’re angry, but you’re being a dick. You deserve what you request. You deserve complete equality. You’re a human being. You deserve and have a right to your personal relationships and love. You have a right to marry whomever you wish, man or woman. You’ll have your equality. You’ll have it soon. nnFight, but fight well. Don’t give your enemies ammunition as you’re doing here today. Don’t give them reason to point at you and say, I told you so. Those guys behave like animals.nnYou have a right to your anger, just use it properly. Wield it as a tool, not as a weapon. You’ll win. You already have. It’s only a matter of time. nnBoycott Utah if you must. It matters little to me. nnGood luck. 2008-11-20 16:45:13.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ha! 32.97.110.51 BC4FC277-14D1-13A2-9F8AC1B141EA984C B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC Move Sundance....websitennThey propose moving Sundance Film Festival from Utah to New Mexicon http://movesundance.com/mission.htmlnnBRAVO! 2008-11-20 16:50:23.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC53C920-14D1-13A2-9F84D81B8063A7EE B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD HannGays/lesbians don’t fight nice, we fight to survive. It’s not a polite dissertation, it’s an alley fight, and we’ll grab what ever is handy and strike out.nnHere is a website to MOVE SUNDANCEn http://movesundance.com/mission.html 2008-11-20 16:54:46.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC5AC7CB-14D1-13A2-9F16FA57AA6407BA B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD ha nnwe have this in common, your letter not posted, your apolgy, and your not f*cking with people anymorennnas you said....it matters little to me. 2008-11-20 17:02:25.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC5C1A6C-14D1-13A2-9F500B5890A807A6 B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD apology.....typo 2008-11-20 17:03:52.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Mark 65.13.174.114 BC7E1828-14D1-13A2-9FCC419BDDAA664C B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 When I was a senior in high school, our small school put on the musical South Pacific. As I attended the practices and listened to the music, there was one song that has come back to my memory many times in the forty plus years since then;nn“You’ve got to be taught to hate and fear.n You’ve got to be taught from year to year.n It’ got to be drummed in your dear little ear. n You’ve got to be carefully taught.”nnAlthough the words to that song were written shortly after the Second World War, the truth found in those words registers today just as strongly.nnI also remember in grade school that there was queer day each Thursday and those students wearing pink or purple were teased. This socialization process may seem innocuous, but actually it was bullying in a form that creates thought patterns of what is acceptable. Picture in your mind if you will, a child who feels different from the other students because of tendencies that although having tried to change, are still there: left handedness, excelling in sports/or dance (whatever is different from the norm in their social group), and liking others of the same sex. Not a comfortable place to be would you say? Yet, week after week thirty-six weeks out of every year for thirteen years that child is bullied though teasing, banter, and mockery, and isolation. This process occurs under the adults who have been processed to educate. Education comes through awareness. The word itself comes from the Latin word educo meaning “to lead out of” yet, still in Utah we are facing the same form of bullying that occurred during the forties. How can that be? What don’t we understand about hurting words and actions towards others just to manage our own fears about ourselves?nnPerceptions of difference followed by actions of hate return generation after generation only because we can’t truly love each other. We have found we can’t live the royal law of simply doing unto others as we would have done unto us. We base our own worth on being in groups much like those in elementary classrooms; yet only to find we are just children grown up. nnIf a woman from Idaho can read The Sealed Portion and find such peace, wouldn’t all of us benefit from just a few among us sharing that sort of love. Thank you, Monica for sharing. 2008-11-20 17:40:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Pat 12.213.224.56 BC8A03B3-14D1-1357-9C62EC907F6B5647 B20234F5-14D1-1357-9C614770138DAD3C Really, there was something or other on TV last night about football, can’t remember exactly. nnBut I watched the National Championship College Football game last Friday night in the Sugar Bowl and my team won!nnAs this guy dressed in a football uniform for some reason said last night,I just want to thank my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, for our team’s success this year.nnName was Tivo or something like that. nnSo, we have God as a co-pilot, always, and now Jesus is a defensive line coach. 2009-01-09 10:56:48.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Black Mamba 76.164.29.214 BC913C8E-14D1-13A2-9FDD22D40F8214DC B5C8F55C-14D1-13A2-9FA7A0BDD7C1914B i have to say i agree with robin. it has always puzzled me why judge hilder gave the father/deer hunter a jail sentence when it was clear to everyone that he had suffered enough. at the time, i remember thinking that the judge must have imposed the sentence out of public pressure; he didn’t want to seem like he was soft on crime. in any event, 30 days in jail was the last thing the guy deserved. so because this incident, i believe, shows the judge’s tendency to pay too much attention to public opinion, i don’t feel bad that he was not confirmed. 2008-11-20 18:01:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 steve 63.228.193.27 BCB4C0CA-14D1-13A2-9F96096CBF5B4F29 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 tim nnMake room for incivility...babycakes.nCuz it’s coming at you with cleats on.nnWe neither want or need you trying on our shoes. 2008-11-20 18:40:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 mark 65.13.174.114 BCC6FABB-14D1-13A2-9F06F00E7B3D5B77 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 It wasn’t CIVIL to attack LGBT families...your elders didn’t even KNOW.nIt wasn’t CIVIL expecting LGBTs should be the one minority to have no Constitutional Rights under the equal protection clause.nIt wasn’t CIVIL to have 4 Yes supporters send BLACKMAIL letters attempting to extort $10,000.00.nIt wasn’t CIVIL making fearmongering commercials which were a pack of LIES, that don’t stand up to scrutiny,of MA which has had same sex marriage 5 years.nndo unto others..... 2008-11-20 19:00:36.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 mark 65.13.174.114 BCC99D1F-14D1-13A2-9F9FBC7D11A2E286 B6009A1E-14D1-13A2-9F11BCDFB083A101 hmm, Havilah mills, are you engaged to the guitarist of Radio rhythm makers? of course you would say that they have a good show. But in my unbiased opinion, they play fucking great, ashlie is hot and has a great voice. 2008-11-20 19:03:28.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Damion Mantle 75.169.215.119 BCE45F9C-14D1-1357-9CD46AAC698F398F B20234F5-14D1-1357-9C614770138DAD3C Lick ass’s group.nDo you all work at CW? The Utes are Pop warraner 2009-01-09 12:35:29.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Tiny Tim 12.148.99.130 BCE80A54-14D1-1357-9C1572E461B42705 B20234F5-14D1-1357-9C614770138DAD3C So, Ass Lick Tim, I guess they beat TCU and Alabama, both notable Pop Warner teams, right?nnYou are such a douche- 2009-01-09 12:39:30.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Black Mamba 76.164.29.214 BD2BE868-14D1-1357-9C371630706B5237 B20A5750-14D1-1357-9C32BCD274A05130 Waddoups is nervous - the Gentiles are closing in all around him, and those 19 other Republican Senators are scared too. It’s time somebody put their foot down on this runaway liberalization of time honored Utah statute traditions. And then there’s the governor, damn (I mean hec), what happened to him? Increasing the size of a shot? Trying to pass legislation that would allow a flood of sodden pagans descending like a Mongol horde on the hotels and resorts of the state, actually being allowed to buy drinks without having to pay an additional fee? Actually not having to sit forward-facing at a bar (well, what passes for a bar here) and wait for the waiter (who appears to be in some kind of juvenile training program and is still very confused on just exactly how to deliver a cocktail) to walk around to the patron’s back and serve the customer over his or her shoulder?nHeavy crap for a gaggle of Republican Senators to swallow all at once. The day I walk into a State Liquor Store and see refridgerated stand-up coolers for the beer (Oh, my hec!) will be the day that I know true change has come to the land of Zion. 2009-01-09 13:53:38.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Read Well 67.128.35.155 BD405A3C-14D1-13A2-9F11C8BF961DC439 B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 The LDS Church did not endorse these writings as the sealed scriptures. So I think it’s wrong to associate this doctrine to the LDS Church with out their permission. nnAs much as I don’t like those power-trippen-fit-throwing-mind-robbing-mo’s (at least that that type, the others I kinda like) Monica’s a nice gal- Sorry. It gave her the freedom from bigotry and the release her soul needed. It can’t be all bad.nnI have to validate the fact that Mormon’s have the right to consider this a crock of shit and take offense to the fact these writing’s were published and marketed for others to make that determination. nnThe Guy told Ben Fulton he lied, and then retracted it....... 2008-11-20 21:13:10.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Blog Patrol 71.199.49.126 BD5DBAF0-14D1-1357-9C6A58FEA07986C4 B2074A5E-14D1-1357-9CC44DB350858460 The article’s author doesn’t understand her subject. nnThe point is not that oil shale development puts the flower at risk, but rather that science does not support the claim that Utah/Colorado oil shales are its only habitat. And the author doesn’t seem to understand the difference.nnShe asserts that, the flower’ ultra-specific habitat is the rocky oil-shale fields now being eyed for exploration by Shell, Marathon and other U.S. oil company giants in Eastern Utah, then quotes a Utah state botanist, who says, “we have not been able to prove at this point that [the flower] deserves a critical habitat designation.”nnThis is only one of too many examples where general information columnists do their readers a disservice by roaming beyond their sphere of understanding, thereby confusing important issues. 2009-01-09 14:48:03.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Earl R. 70.58.37.189 BD79685A-14D1-13A2-9FDC77717713AE4A B5C42ABD-14D1-13A2-9FDF318F6A6538FC I have never had so much fun reading the shit you dopes put in this paper.nIntertaninment at it’s best, queers, church ladys, K from utah, but best of all the cum driker Mark.nWay to go guys. 2008-11-20 22:15:29.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Thomas the Train 12.148.99.130 BD8C8342-14D1-13A2-9F72BBBF33342650 B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 Church authorities were given the opportunity to take full control of the publication, release & distribution of the Sealed Portion as proved by USPS certified records (see http://thesealedportion.com) -LDS HQ passed on it. No one questions HQ’s right to oppose the content of TSP, just as they opposed gay marriage. nnHowever, the right to agree in its veracity also belongs to any one who has in fact read The Sealed Portion The Final Testament of Jesus Christ entirely and believes it to be the rest 2/3 completion of the Book of Mormon awaited by many.nnFYI-Since the Book of Mormon was first printed in the early 1800’s, it’s definitely past its period of copyright protection. As chapter headings and footnotes were added to it in 1978. The LDS Church owns the copyright to the chapter headings since they constitute enough new material that it could be copyrighted on its own, but the text of the Book of Mormon has no copyright.nnIndividuals, such as Monica Melbite are capable & should read to determine for themselves whether the Final Testament of Jesus Christ is truth or not, without the influence of outside opinion. nnIndividual right, choice and free agency are at the core of issues in discussion & debate. The rights of one group should not usurp the rights of others. 2008-11-20 22:36:21.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Rose 98.202.68.180 BDEE6648-14D1-13A2-9F36894331AC26B7 B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 Mark,nnYou are your own worst enemy and do damage to your cause by such words. The gay community’ response to Prop 8 has turned even more people against you because it has been hate-filled and intolerant. This double standard makes people shake their heads.nnNobody “attacked” you. You attacked the definition of marriage. We defended it.nnYour comments belie a misunderstanding of the equal protection clause. The law does not in any way support the gay community’ argument, unless, of course, you turn it on its head.nnBlackmail based on what?nnNothing from an official source was a lie. I haven’t just heard each of the principle claims advanced by the official campaign, I have experienced many of them in real life. You can’t show me a lie in the bunch.nnWhat I can show you, however, is some the grossest public bigotry since the 1960s. But this time it was by gays against people with a legitimate political opinion simply because it was against their own, especially if that opinion was influenced by religion.nnWhy is bigotry evil unless it comes out of your own mouth? 2008-11-21 00:23:16.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Tim 67.182.230.99 BE181894-14D1-1357-9CFF6F8DEB9B6588 B2074A5E-14D1-1357-9CC44DB350858460 A “drill-baby-drill” mentality?nnMs. Mullen, one doesn’t drill for oil shale. 2009-01-09 18:11:36.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Todd D. 70.58.37.189 BE1DE770-14D1-1357-9C02F5F608860389 B20A5750-14D1-1357-9C32BCD274A05130 But didn’t the state host the world in 2002? nnAnd isn’t it true the state made no changes in it’s liquor laws for that party?nnAnd didn’t the world -- at least the part that came, spent money, and enjoyed the show -- go away quite satisfied? 2009-01-09 18:17:57.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ted 70.58.37.189 BE253376-14D1-13A2-9FEA7C6FEED400BD B15E3955-14D1-13A2-9FF6A7A5EC25ACAD Mark I admire your fight. And for mormons who started this fight, (and now wish it would go away). It’ just begun.nAnd try to see the irony of a religion that practiced marriage as a “harem of barley legal ass” trying to say they only want one man and one (cough bullshit) woman marriage to be the law of the land.nAnd Ha, you “bow your head and say yes” with that mouth. For shame! Remember you are a representative of the One True Church®, even on the internet. 2008-11-21 01:23:08.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Kid Kolob 199.64.0.252 BE354FB7-14D1-13A2-9FACF6DC44B05231 B15CE193-14D1-13A2-9F12856922606C27 Lucy Harris was no dummy, when she called Bullshit on Joe smith’ racist gobbledygook and tossed it in the fire thus proving that women in the past did have common sense.nnThe sealed portion could be like the second Star Wars trilogy. Considering that the book of mormon is just a “fan script” of the Bible. 2008-11-21 01:40:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Kid Kolob 199.64.0.252 BE9E57A4-14D1-1357-9C79E2C6FF46189C B20234F5-14D1-1357-9C614770138DAD3C Black mama;nWhat would you know about Football??nIt’s not played at gay bars or on foosball table’nIt that how you claen up DOUCH 2009-01-09 20:38:14.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Tiny Tim 12.148.99.130 BEE08856-14D1-13A2-9F1073BB6C0BAE8B B5A18AE6-14D1-13A2-9F3D97CF4301C8E2 WHY CALIFORNIA PASSED PROPOSITION 8nnMarriage is the legal, social, economic and spiritual union of a man and a woman. One man and one woman are necessary for a valid marriage. If that definition is radically altered then anything is possible. There is no logical reason for not letting several people marry, or for eliminating other requirements, such as minimum age, blood relative status or even the limitation of the relationship to human beings. Those who are trying to radically redefine California’s marriage laws for their own purposes are the ones who are trying to impose their values on the rest of the population. Those citizens opposed to any change in California’s marriage statutes are merely defending the basic morality that has sustained the culture for everyone against a radical attack.nnWhen same-sex couples seek California’s approval and all the benefits that the state reserves for married couples, they impose the law on everyone. According non-marital relationships the same status as marriage would mean that millions of people would be disenfranchised by their own governments. The state would be telling them that their beliefs are no longer valid, and would turn the civil rights laws into a battering ram against them.nnLaw is not a suggestion, as George Washington observed, it is force. An official state sanction of same-sex relationships as marriage would bring the full apparatus of the state against those who believe that marriage is between one man and one woman. This has already happened in Massachusetts (CatholicCharities and Lexington Public Schools), New Jersey (Methodist Church lost its tax exemption), etc. The Protect Marriage Coalition views this as outlawing traditional morality. nnEliminating one entire sex from an institution defined as the union of the two sexes is a quantum leap from eliminating racial discrimination, which did not alter the fundamental character of marriage. Marriage reflects the natural moral and social law evidenced the world over. As the late British social anthropologist Joseph Daniel Unwin noted in his study of world civilizations, any society that devalued the nuclear family soon lost what he called expansive energy, which might best be summarized as society’s will to make things better for the next generation. In fact, no society that has loosened sexual morality outside of man-woman marriage has survived.nn Analyzing studies of cultures spanning several thousands of years on several continents, Harvard sociologist Pitirim Sorokin found that virtually all political revolutions that brought about societal collapse were preceded by a sexual revolution in which marriage and family were devalued by the culture’ acceptance of homosexuality.nnWhen marriage loses its unique status, women and children most frequently are the direct victims. Giving same-sex relationships or out-of-wedlock heterosexual couples the same special status and benefits as the marital bond would not be the expansion of a right but the destruction of a principle. . If the one-man/one-woman definition of marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping point for continuing the assault on marriage.nnIf feelings are the key requirement, then why not let three people marry, or two adults and a child, or consenting blood relatives of any age? . Marriage-based kinship is essential to stability and continuity in our state. Child abuse is much more prevalent when a living arrangement is not based on kinship. Kinship imparts family names, heritage, and property, secures the identity and commitment of fathers for the sake of the children, and entails mutual obligations to the community. nn The US Supreme Court declared in 1885 that states’ marriage laws must be based on the idea of the family, as consisting in and springing from the union for life of one man and one woman in the holy estate of matrimony; the sure foundation of all that is stable and noble in our civilization, the best guaranty of that reverent morality which is the source of all beneficent progress in social and political improvement.’’

 

 
 
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