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Home / Articles / News / News Articles /  House Poor: “Free Capitalist” Rick Koerber offers class in avoiding foreclosure while his own mansion goes on the block
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Wednesday, August 13,2008

House Poor: “Free Capitalist” Rick Koerber offers class in avoiding foreclosure while his own mansion goes on the block

By Eric S. Peterson
Rick the “Free Capitalist” Koerber is a controversial figure; fans praise the “ancient principles” of prosperity he espouses on his radio talk show and Website as a financial godsend. Critics, however, allege the smooth-talking businessman sells unsuspecting victims on empty promises, only to leave them buried in debt. Dennis and Marietta Baca, an elderly couple in Colorado, allege that by following Koerber’s investment program, they were bilked out of $170,000 and nearly lost their dream home to foreclosure.

While their lawsuit against Koerber has been stymied by legal motions, Koerber does have a solution for them: They could sign up for his new “Real Estate Rescue Training” seminar. For a mere $995, the one-day class can teach people in desperate straits how to avoid foreclosure, he claims. Koerber is so confident of the class that he plans on using it himself—to duck the foreclosure hanging over a gated mansion in Alpine, where he currently lives and works.

Koerber and his unique “equity milling” process, he says, has helped willing students learn how to live a “principled” and financially wealthy life. It has also made him the subject of an ongoing Utah Division of Securities fraud investigation, as Koerber has admitted himself. Koerber is not shy about his encounters with UDS investigators.

On an Aug. 31, 2007, episode of his talk show, Koerber announced he was under state investigation. “These [UDS bureaucrats] are just hanging on until they’re 65 so they can drive their Winnebagos around and visit their grandkids who don’t even love them anymore because they’re calloused and sore,” Koerber shrieked. “I’m not asking any favors from listeners or government employers—I’ve got nothing to hide,” he added. (For more on Koerber see “House of Cards,” March 6, and “White Collar Greed,” July 31, City Weekly.)

Since then, Koerber has battled UDS and struggled with cash-flow difficulties in supporting his business empire that once included several real-estate holding companies, his investment school American Founders University and his main investment company Founders Capital. At one time, several of these key companies and the Free Capitalist radio show—which has hosted guests such as Republican U.S. Rep. Chris Cannon and state Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman—were housed within his 50,000-square foot Provo office. The office is now abandoned but for one Koerber holding—VIP Media. Koerber may be down, but he’s not out; from his mansion in Alpine in northern Utah county, he lives and works—carrying on the Free Capitalist project for all those willing to, as he says, “turn their brains on.”

The newest endeavor is a Real Estate Rescue Training seminar. “I will guarantee anyone who chooses to implement the plan I’ll demonstrate at the event that they can keep the home they are looking to save—or sell it successfully without foreclosure in less than 30 days,” writes Koerber in a Free Capitalist newsletter.

While Koerber originally had planned the event to be a one-time workshop, he says the attention the notice has garnered has led him to refocus his real-estate education. “The feedback was surprising,” Koerber responds in an e-mail, noting that with so many interested individuals from out of state, he’s decided to expand the program. “American Founders University will announce several separate locations across the country (we anticipate at least one location here along the Wasatch Front) with a [Real Estate Rescue Training] schedule beginning in August and continuing throughout the rest of the year.”

Yet Koerber is unsure where the classes will be held, since his old office has been closed down. Koerber has held events at his office in the Alpine mansion, but holding the foreclosure-avoidance class there might be difficult if the home gets repossessed. According to a foreclosure sale ad from the July 19 Daily Herald, Koerber’s home will be auctioned off Aug. 13. Koerber says that, although he lives and works there, the home is owned by a former vice president of Koerber’s Franklin Squires Investments, Gabriel Joseph.

Because the house is not in his name, Koerber believes the issue doesn’t affect his credibility in teaching a foreclosure-avoidance class. “I am optimistic it can be resolved without foreclosure for the same reasons and based upon the same approaches I’m teaching others,” he continues via e-mail. Koerber is confident from his five years of teaching real-estate investment, and he claims thousands of success stories from past students.

Former student Joe Olivas, who works at a St. George insurance agency, is an avid supporter. “Overall, it was an amazing experience,” Olivas says of the yearlong Fundamentals of Wealth course he took. For $4,295, he completed an online curriculum with video lectures. He corresponded with Koerber by e-mail and went to four live workshops throughout the year. “The information I learned about our country, our founding fathers [has] helped me better understand how to improve my personal life and my community,” Olivas says.

Meanwhile, the Bacas in Colorado, who allege Koerber’s program endangered their dream home going into foreclosure are still fighting a legal battle they hope will serve as a warning to others. “It’s been a rude awakening,” says Dennis Baca, who worries “there’s a lot of good people out there” who could get burned by Koerber’s program. The couple, former students of Koerber’s investment school, felt they were duped into investing $170,000 from their home’s equity, credit card advances and even Marietta Baca’s meager retirement savings from her 22 years working at an area Safeway grocery store into an elaborate Ponzi scheme.

Dennis Baca hasn’t given up the fight, though. “We’re hot on their trail, and we’ve not stopped,” Dennis says. “They better not look over their shoulder.”

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A few corrections - and one response to OlivernnRE: The Bacas. Dennis and Marietta Baca enrolled in one of my courses offered at the time through the FranklinSquires Instutie. The subject of the course was Real Estate Acquisition. The Baca’s did not complete the course. The course does not include any provision whatsoever for students to invest any money in any real estate venture with me or anyone else. Separate from my course the Baca’s - using their own company Colorado Equity Lending, LLC went against my teachings, evidently borrowed money against their own home and invested it with a company that I have no ownership in, management or operational influence with, and which has nothing to do with the course they took from me. IF the Baca’s would have completed my course and followed my teachings they would never have been in the situation they are in now. The Baca’s did indeed file a lawsuit but it has not been stymied by legal motions. The Baca’s received no resistance from me or any of the other plaintiffs to their proposed case management schedule - which the court approved. I am anxious for the facts to be revealed and decided upon by a court, because I am confident that the Baca’s distortion of the facts will be clearly established.nnRE: Equity Milling. I do not claim that the Equity Milling process has helped anyone live a principled and financally wealthy life. Equity Milling is a specific arrangement of real estate investing techniques that when utilized properly can be very effective for successful real estate investing, period. nnRE: American Founders University. AFU is not an investment school but is a private, liberal arts school currently offering NO TRAINING in investing. There are 141 courses listed on the official course calendar of AFU covering topics as wide ranging as family studies, prosperity economics, public policy, the US Constitution and political philosophy and yet the article mentions only a few of them (none investing courses by the way) and mischaracterizes the nature of the school as an investment school.nnRE: The Alpine Mansion and the Provo Office Space. First, the paper mis-characterizes the situation. No training locations are undecided because of the circumstances surrounding the Alpine property or the old FranklinSquires Provo office space. Secondly, the FranklinSquires Companies is one business entity which was headquartered in Provo, and that business elected to reduce costs by terminating the lease on the Provo building. This matter is the subject of a press release issued by FranklinSquires in February of 2008, yet the article neglects to report any of the facts related to that release. My personal credibility has nothing to do with the private financial arrangements between parties where I am not included - is what I actually said. For the record, the Alpine Mansion was not foreclosed on August 13 as predicted by the paper, and my optimism proved justified and accurate.nnRE: Fundamentals of Wealth Course and Joe Olivas. The Fundamentals of Wealth course is a self-study course designed to be completed in thirty days. The cost of the course is $995. There is no $4,295 course taught through AFU or any of my businesses that can be completed online. nnRESPONSE TO OLIVER:nnThe first comment to the article by someone calling himself Oliver and representing himself to be some sort of authority on me and my companies. It is worth noting that in almost every situation of online criticism and defamation that authors use fake names to avoid having to be accountable for their statements and yet claim the privilege of holding me accountable to false statements and half-truths. nnThe anonymous author suggests that I can’t afford to pay my workers, yet all of my employees have been paid, in full - including health benefits and employer contributions - every pay period. nnThe author makes a vague reference to my program costing $7,000 and putting people into foreclosure, but if the facts are examined there is not one person who has actually done business with me who has complained that following what I actually teach has put them into foreclosure. In almost all cases these are individuals who were loosely associated with me, who followed some of my advice and then took seriously miscalculated risks, ignoring my teachings on risk management, personal responsibility, and avoidance of personal debt - especially my teachings against borrowing against personal home equity for the sake of speculation.nnThe author and I do agree on one thing. Any interested party can look at my history, my reputation with those who have actually done business with me, and the reputation of my close partners and associates and find out exactly what they require. Internet gossip, regardless of the source, does not constitute doing research. Trusting the reports of anonymous web postings from those who make vague and unsubstantiated claims about their association with me and the supposedly bad consequences of that association is not better than participating in the orginal gossip in the first place. nnI and several of my associates have indeed experienced financial difficulties over the last twelve to eighteen months. The only advice I have for those who read articles like this one at City Weekly, full of errors and distortions, is that time is on the side of truth. In times of crisis and great emotional turmoil people have a tendency to rush to judgment and there exists no shortage of gossip pedlar’s whose own desires for fame, popularity, credibility, and sometimes financial gain will justify their own mis-deeds in the supposed name of fairness and looking out for the weak and victimized. I suggest that such people are much more dangerous than those who they attack whatever faults their targets may have. nnFor those who are looking for the truth, I suggest that this article and its certain to be attached comments and commentaries, serve as a distraction, at best ,from obtaining reliable information. At least Eric Peterson keeps asking me for comments. Perhaps someday he’ll actually ask me for comments related to the underlying facts of his article and an actual piece of news/journalism could eventually result. Well, here’s to hoping. 2008-08-15 10:30:22.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Rick Koerber 24.10.172.155 C739D666-14D1-13A2-9F620494C0D00A69 BCCD16EE-14D1-13A2-9F1550E56357F5EA Rebecca,nnPlease don’t let the few snipers out there dissuade you from contributing. There are many of us who appreciate reading honest opinion. KSL has a poster “Rachel” that receives a lot of negative shots at her. But if you read her posts and put things together, you learn that she moved to Utah to take care of an aging relative. How can I not respect that? Then maybe her opinions, even those I may not agree with, are worth reading. By reading those opinions, I learn, and learning is growth. For those incapable of learning or growth the exchange of ideas is painful and they strike out. Recognize that those folks often do not have the capacity for broader thinking and they deserve only our pity. Thanks for sharing, and I look forward to reading more of your opinions. 2008-08-15 10:36:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Duke Leto 63.167.171.20 C73AE704-090B-5992-FA6AA63150CC9A39 3F1F2483-D5FE-2500-753B81E47E72F663 well...?? 2007-12-10 20:23:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 what C73DD6D8-14D1-13A2-9F328F7142191B47 C0D6FA45-14D1-13A2-9F2DB25E439CF4B1 Go see these guys play. Amazing live energy. 2008-06-26 17:38:16.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Carbone 75.169.56.187 C74EFA9E-14D1-13A2-9F6EDED51ADA24EC B91085D1-14D1-13A2-9F0CDD130D5A8A69 I’ve never been on this websight, or have I ever blogged in my life. I am however a City Weekly reader, and I look forward to Thursday mornings when I can pick up a new issue. This letter regarding Ask a Mormon actually got me onto my computer to figure out how to add my two cents. We have Ask a Mormon everywhere in this town, all one has to do is turn their head and and there will be someone more than willing to tell us about the mormon religion. Isn’t that what the mormon religion is built on, recruiting, or brainwashing as many folk as possible? I’ve lived in SLC my entire life, 32 years, I LOVE City Weekly for its non-church related opinions, when I read it I feel ok again, and like there are other normal human beings that live in this state. Please do not add Ask a Mormon, I think you are already fair enough by publishing so many letters written by LDS members. 2008-08-15 10:59:46.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 jami 67.166.73.194 C7508DC5-14D1-13A2-9FE0E7A5861B4DE4 BCCBF373-14D1-13A2-9F791150DF9E8673 Thank you for the clarifications Rick. I was a bit disappointed that there was no mention in the article that the course I took from AFU, Fundamentals of Wealth, which indeed a self study, has taught me a level of accountability for my own life I had not learned over the last 35 years. nnOn the surface it appears that this article is showing two sides, negative and positive, from the viewpoints of Mr. & Mrs. Baca and that of myself. However, the information as it has been reported is open to interpretations and in my case is both incomplete and inaccurate.nnI stand behind the education I received through AFU, and I encourage anyone to explore these courses in a much more personal and serious way. My life, as well as the lives of my wife and children is infinitely better as a direct result of the education I have received. It is my personal opinion that anyone who has taken any courses from AFU and has had a negative experience can be traced back to their own personal commitments. We get out of this life what we put into it, and if I hold the teacher accountable for how I choose to learn, there lies the problem.nnAs for the Constitutional Cause of Freedom Kool-Aid that is mentioned by Oliver... Someone pour me another cup. 2008-08-15 11:01:29.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Joe Olivas 209.33.198.75 C757EF77-14D1-13A2-9FF3A396613B9C0C C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Those who are pure representatives of the faith may cast the first stone! 2008-03-19 08:01:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jebus 166.70.201.156 C7618D09-14D1-13A2-9FC7D9043E2BD5D4 C080F28D-14D1-13A2-9F3CC12D565E8982 I wouldn’t blame Shurtleff for this whole phenomenon... Seriously we all use the internet, but we aren’t all scamming; and this is not just a local issue...nnBut having recently been on a rental search, I came across more than one living out of country landlords... The most common story was serving a Christian mission. That made me smile... All they would have to do to make their story seem the least bit believable is say LDS mission!!! Scary! nnIf you don’t know the person and it seems to good to be true... it is. 2008-06-26 18:17:16.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Caitlin 68.178.10.194 C76A1635-14D1-13A2-9FB6DE18A69B34A8 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E OK everyone, how about bringing the comments back to the topic? This isn’t a forum for trashing blogger Towner--take that to your own blogs and throw your own little tantrums in your own little e-world, ok? The topic here is the Lohra Miller story. How about we deal with what’s on the page? Thank you. 2008-03-19 08:21:01.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 weeklyreader 67.166.108.194 C76E11A9-14D1-13A2-9F6578CAB3FFFBB7 BDC811D6-14D1-13A2-9F02D64B39E5A98E DNRC has its own real estate division and fully intends to follow Plum Creek’s model to generate cash for Montana schools. When the (overharvested) standing asset is depleted DNRC, like Plum Creek, will turn to land sales to maintain the unsustainable level of financial support demanded by legislators of both parties. Counties undercharge for timber/grazing lands. Montana has no windfall profits tax to force residential conversions to pay their own way. So, conversions create huge infrastructure deficits. Legislators compartmentalize the structural problems, rubber stamp unsustainable school funding revenue streams, and hope tomorrow never comes. Tomorrow has arrived. Comprehensive, structural reform is long overdue. 2008-08-15 11:33:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 steve kelly 209.137.226.158 C76EB1A7-14D1-13A2-9FF20A762331E2B3 C59956A2-14D1-13A2-9F7C353841E4486F A few Blackfeet fall for free stuff for their personal gain and allow scientology to use all Blackfeet. we must re-patriat this War Bonnet as it now soils all who should truly carry the war bonnet. Blame Earl, but I think this was done without him or the Tribe, or the people. L. Ron Hubbard and the scientology is a hoax. He was a renown science fiction writer, nothing else. Did anyone check the facts or were they too busy awing a room that may or may not of had Marilynn Monore stay in? Wake up and smell the bs! Norconon has been run out of more places then it has been accepted. 2008-06-26 18:31:37.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Blkft Tribal Member 216.129.232.75 C7746895-14D1-13A2-9F60A6E0246A4563 75594BE0-14D1-13A2-9F9DC74E031F8178 Whats happening?I tie my dredlocks in a napkin ring!None of you hooligans know didley about conservation.I on the hand happen to drive a subaru forrester.Im alot better than you all because it gets 19mpg!And Im a vegetarian but sometimes I eat beef burrito supremes at Taco Bell when Im lazy and hungry.But Im still a vegetarian.I maintain my Trustafarian image with my VW bus thats stays parked over on Beverly Ave.Mom and dad back East bought me my Subaru.They said I could represent a course of action against global warming while they pay my tuition beacause My Forrester has a 4 cylinder engine that gets great gas mileage!19 to 20mpg!just like a big V8 in a truck!Dont forget to bless your bowl.Oh and Earth First! 2008-08-15 11:40:39.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Friend of the Bitteroots(but im from Vermont) 72.175.133.214 C784F880-14D1-13A2-9FA0C3ECC189FAA0 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E So the adult Millers were video taped leaving a private club @ 2:00 Am....Just after they had to leave because the doors were closing.....I wonder what their BAC was and if they indeed drove home? Every time I have left a private club @ 2:00 Am I have had plenty to drink. 2008-03-19 08:50:23.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 TempleDoom! 24.10.129.239 C78586F1-14D1-13A2-9FBE06DBC281B9E5 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E This is not tabloid journalism........unless you also categorize KSL 5 as tabloid journalism, since this was their top story last night at 10. nSimple story. Ms. Miller is a public official who is getting away with what most of us could not. In addition, she is prosecuting people who are doing the same things she is doing!nNice journalism. 2008-03-19 08:50:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 aaa 75.169.1.14 C78602A7-14D1-13A2-9F001D4D4167ED72 BCD0F027-14D1-13A2-9F2D8F192321328C Don’t know if anyone else caught this gem in yesterday’s SL trib. nnIn the article ’Property-tax jolt business owners’ people in south Davis county were hit with a huge spike in property tax bills. The article stated some people were advocating for a change in tax assessment. Senate President John Valentine did not know if that was possible because, I kid you not, ’It would require voter approval to amend the state Constitution, he added, something that cannot be done on a whim.’ nnsarcasm starts...right....here...Our state constitution, if the ’whim’ is to oppress gay and lesbian people, super! Changing the constitution to make tax laws more fair and equitable? What? Are you crazy? 2008-08-15 11:59:53.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Kyle 159.212.71.17 C796DBA2-14D1-13A2-9FFA208F11813ABC 75594BE0-14D1-13A2-9F9DC74E031F8178 Yeah ummhmm.Hells Anus aint never caught no woverine.My son Craig is a product of me and my brother,or was it my father?anyhows my son craig aint no cracka!Ummhmm.My son craig knows how to read.Ummhmm.They taught him over at the poverello center,mmhmm.I bet my son craig could mabye sniff Hells Anus.Craig isnt gay because he only has encounters with men on the weekends or at the poverello.mmhmm.He aint retarded-ass whiteboy.Hes an indian that was raised in Guyana but was temporarily a homosexual in Hungary.He marks where he traps woverines on maps.I love my son.Hes glossy down there if ya know what i mean.mmmmmmmhhhmmmmmmm.I reckon 2008-08-15 12:18:17.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Debby Jones 72.175.133.214 C7AC877D-AC92-5D32-EC8AF1ABE0576B48 E9D7691E-DCF3-7C88-180B187086AC352A My sincerest apologies, Jamie, I did misquote you. nnI also would like to let you know that I do have respect for you guys putting yourselves out there. I imagine that it isn’t easy for anyone to put themselves in front of thousands of people (figuratively speaking) and voicing critiques that may or may not be agreeable to many.nnAlso, I did offer some constructive ideas--indirectly...but you’d have only seen them had you looked beyond my backhanded retorts. nnBy the way, I didn’t mean to imply that you called me an asshole. I actually called myself one for writing all the backhanded retorts that I shot at you so unfairly. nnTake it easy, Jamie.nnLove, nBiff 2008-01-29 15:30:48.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 B.Merriweather 76.27.106.90 C7B424F6-14D1-13A2-9F94C73AEF8B9CE3 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E I agree with Holly Mullen’s statement about public officials. We as tax payers, pay these people to be better people than ourselves. THEY ARE NOT. IT MAKES ME SICK. These are the people that pass judgements on other people?nnBy the way, NO ONE in this state lives their life by the teachings of the LDS church. NO ONE!nnStay out of other peoples lives. Don’t worry about my soul. nnI am prepared to answer for anything I have done wrong.nnARE You? 2008-03-19 09:41:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ihavehadwiththisstate 69.88.69.180 C7B88F08-14D1-13A2-9F414A7106685F3B 9FC09196-14D1-13A2-9FB3E3E0647A3BFE Transform & Tranquility Med Spa and Salon gets my vote for best Gym, Best Food, and Best Yoga Studio. I suffer from fibromyagia and after I signed up with an instructor and life coach, my fibro became manageable. Instead of 5 bad days a week. I may have maybe 1 a month. I’m active and learned different ways of conditioning my body and eating healthier. 2008-03-19 09:46:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jewel 63.228.194.138 C7BED429-14D1-13A2-9F1B9BE48C72EFBC BDC811D6-14D1-13A2-9F02D64B39E5A98E Man, All I can do is laugh. You folks slay me. I like this paper. Whenever I need a good laugh just look at the comments on articles. Now lets see it all tie in to GW and global warming and 9/11. Remember it was an inside job. 2008-08-15 13:01:56.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ha! 161.7.2.160 C7C367D9-14D1-13A2-9F289EF627B6CEB6 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Captain Mark- I live by the Millers and would like to inform you that the Zielinski’s are not Active LDS. Perhaps you should check your facts prior to being a bigot. 2008-03-19 09:58:34.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 What? 67.177.24.84 C7C75339-14D1-13A2-9F1B9D0134376D5C C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Please, VOTE! This woman should not be in office, period! 2008-03-19 10:02:51.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Melanie 12.23.101.225 C7CD8F26-14D1-13A2-9F8F5F55AB4AA2C7 BCCBF373-14D1-13A2-9F791150DF9E8673 Rick is correct that his Alpine mansion was not foreclosed on the 13th of August. Yet he fails to mention that the foreclosure was merely postponed until September 12. See http://166.70.28.23/futuresales.html.nnRick, please explain how your right hand (I mean Invisible Hand) man could let this happen? I thought principles govern. Was putting the house in Gabe’s name part of your strategy of managing your risk to zero by letting other people’s credit take the hit when things went bad?nnAlso, will you be downgrading once the foreclosure process is complete or do you have hidden millions lying around in which you are planning to buy the house at auction for cheap?nnAwaiting your reply. nn(And no, I’m not putting my name out here. I’ve seen firsthand how you go after people that cross you.) 2008-08-15 13:18:02.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Unquiet 71.199.32.82 C7E9A339-14D1-13A2-9F5B56E8FE505634 C082C6E1-14D1-13A2-9F5C15298AA1A0C1 good job. The best article is not the one people love but the one they hate. Just like Notre Dame, the Lakers, the Yankees, it is only when there is love and hate on both sides is the matter interesting. Keeping up the good work and keep things interesting. 2008-06-26 20:45:55.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 darkfan 98.202.171.106 C7EC9501-14D1-13A2-9FAA8955D2C113F2 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E She’d probably be fun to party with, I can see her slamming back a couple of Jaeger Bombers and laughing about the people she sent up the river that morning. 2008-03-19 10:43:33.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Truth is 65.112.197.16 C7EF18D5-14D1-13A2-9FEE525DD82B02D8 C08F7F9D-14D1-13A2-9F5A8B6C7103A46E you know what? if California put a law on the books to take away rights of Mormons because of their beliefs very few people of alternate lifestyles would vote for it. It must be nice to feel so smug that you can shit on people and still feel holy at night. 2008-06-26 20:51:52.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 full of irony 98.202.171.106 C7F1ED55-14D1-13A2-9FB2B9E48A2BA586 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E It is nice to see a story where the writer shows their work. The research is well detailed and the facts are presented clearly enough that I can form my own opinion. Very refreshing!!! I do think that public officials are open to scrutiny. It does not seem that there is direct evidence of anything more than a parents struggle in raising teens. I would have liked to know if the attorney general or her husband were over the legal limit when they left a club at 2am!!! Now that WOULD bring her personal accountability into question. 2008-03-19 10:49:23.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Duke Leto 63.167.171.20 C7F24333-14D1-13A2-9F85D5F07E9F26E2 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E I’ve been a frequent critic of SLW, but this is an excellent piece of investigative journalism. And it’s no hatchet job when you give the subjects repeated opportunities to tell their side -- and they arrogantly refuse.nDaily newspapers used to do such articles. Nice to see there is still a place for hard-hitting, take-n-$#%^ing-prisoners reporting. 2008-03-19 10:49:45.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Anonymous 166.70.18.194 C802AE91-14D1-13A2-9FAA5A0830ACEAAB A3B21497-14D1-13A2-9F78B1D1691031F6 The Police are taught in the acadamy how to cover their butts in court, i.e. lie under oath, file false reports, doctor facts etc. and this practise goes all the way to the top. No wonder they don’t want a civilian board to expose their embedded treachery. Anyone who has gone to a preliminary hearing with a law enforcement officer has experienced this to some degree. 2008-03-19 11:07:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Truth is 65.112.197.16 C8042558-14D1-13A2-9F3D209B7AAE2BBD A41C7928-14D1-13A2-9F69EEF56C5A7228 More rhetoric from blind people of little or no knowledge of real fact. (moveon.org and the dailykos believers) Thanks to folks like you for the past 10 years of massive wildfires. Global warming...you actually believe that crap, why not protest to China. It’s now proven that a large part of Southern California’s smog/pollution comes from China. Our pollution compared to China’s is minimal. It’s just easier to criticize everything Republican from your cozy armchair than to go after the real facts. Then you believe crap like Ochie writes up and profess it to be biblical.nnFact is fact...if we log responsibly massive wildfires would be of the past. Yes, fire is good for a forest to survive. Controlled burning works very well after logging.nnBut go ahead and call me names...typical liberal tactics when they can’t back themselves up. I believe the works of National Geographic and NOAA before I believe Al Gore and you people of no credibility.nnAhhh..this is fun...a war of wits with unarmed people. 2008-03-19 11:09:17.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nathan 161.7.2.160 C80EFAED-14D1-13A2-9F004BAC325EC6BC A416B109-14D1-13A2-9FEB5C9EE88FD6D1 PAC...do we really need one? is the U of M, Wilma, and MCT not providing enough space or adequate facilities? anyways if the city owns a $3 million dollar piece of land I would be outraged if they just gave it away, to anybody for any reason! 2008-03-19 11:21:07.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Tron 71.210.35.159 C82494E0-14D1-13A2-9FD7E6ED61410052 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E And unfortunately or not, when you hold public office, you don’t have a private life (or frankly, in cases like this, a private address).nnSorry, Holly, but this is weak beer. The proposition that any public official is fair game for having their trash examined and GPS units attached to their car is likely not one you would’ve endorsed when your dad was mayor. nnAs for meat of the story itself, it’s awfully weak. I’m no Lohra fan, but the key allegations here (drugs and sanctioning of underage drinking) remain unsubstantiated. In fact, the storydelivers nothing of substance. (An at-home law office two years ago? Big deal.) No credible paper would’ve run this story. 2008-03-19 11:44:43.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Jeff 204.113.19.9 C8340175-14D1-13A2-9FC7D147E9B335F2 B501D47F-14D1-13A2-9F2E2A372B83D0F7 It’s called pro-choice, not pro-abortion. If defending your right to do what you can or can’t do with your own body (be it terminating a pregnancy or otherwise) isn’t progressive, then I don’t know what is. 2008-10-04 08:12:43.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 David 24.47.159.27 C842B19F-14D1-13A2-9F128A12D03A95B3 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E It’s amazing that people suggest that Lohra and her husband would have driven home intoxicated. I’m sure that the PI would have had much more of a story if that was the case......Or he is just a lousy PI........that could not get a job as a Cop........It always amazes me that people have nothing better to do with their time than to pay someone to follow others around for two months....... It doesn’t sound like much was found.........Maybe (gasp) there wasn’t anything of substance found because there wasn’t anything to be found.....Just because kids are hanging out does not mean that they are getting intoxicated. And it is not against the law to have parked cars on the street at night and for people to be coming and going from a home. It may be against the home owners association rules, but certainly not against the law...... If the neighbor woke up due to a car door slamming, that also (gasp) is not against the law. It sounds like to me there is a neighbor that has an axe to grind with the Millers and nothing of substance was found........ Sorry Holly, I do not think this story had the impact that you were hoping......It has not changed my view of Lorhra......... I would still vote for her..... 2008-03-19 12:17:36.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 JaneB 207.225.200.66 C844B3E6-14D1-13A2-9FDAF42AD27CA616 BA2A4048-14D1-13A2-9FBC1876E5955C58 Given the economic, environmental and spiritual potential of intact Montana forests, Dick King and the Missoula County Economic Development Corporation’s cries of log, baby log are akin to chanting Eniac, baby, Eniac at a 1990 Apple convention. 2008-10-04 08:30:57.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Lawrence 74.227.197.139 C8454391-14D1-13A2-9F82330F93348313 C08F7F9D-14D1-13A2-9F5A8B6C7103A46E Traditional marriage to a Mormon, means exactly what?nnBreed’em Young and Old Horny Joe must be rolling in there graves. 2008-06-26 22:25:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ever changing “Truth” 199.64.0.252 C8610422-14D1-13A2-9F2ECEC2458B7E33 9FC09196-14D1-13A2-9FB3E3E0647A3BFE Fillet of Phillies sandwiches on 43 East 5900 South are da BBOOOMMBB!!!!!!! :) 2008-03-19 12:50:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ray, Cyn & Baby Ray 66.166.214.138 C868C23B-14D1-13A2-9F5987A5E7630784 9FC09196-14D1-13A2-9FB3E3E0647A3BFE As a sales representative I fly all over the United States, and always looking for places to eat. Every time I’m in Utah, I make it a point to eat at Fillet of Phillies at 43 East 5900 South. Great eats. Good job. Keep up the good work. 2008-03-19 12:59:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Diana 66.166.214.138 C86C86BB-14D1-13A2-9F3F052E52205216 9FC09196-14D1-13A2-9FB3E3E0647A3BFE I think that Fillet of Phillies on 43 East 5900 South have the best sandwiches in UTAH!!!! Great Job Guys!! 2008-03-19 13:03:18.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Sandra 66.166.214.138 C870FDCD-14D1-13A2-9FA619E58302BCE3 9FC09196-14D1-13A2-9FB3E3E0647A3BFE Fillet of Phillies on 43 East 5900 South should be voted Best of Utah they have the best Philly Cheesesteak sandwiches in the United States...Keep up the good work guys!! 2008-03-19 13:08:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Eppie 66.166.214.138 C8726F64-14D1-13A2-9F7C42FC4451FD58 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E So um, the story byline says By Ted McDonough Posted 03/20/2008 ??? Isn’t today March 19? No biggie, just odd. 2008-03-19 13:09:45.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Yada 198.50.4.4 C8867242-14D1-13A2-9F28061970D41591 C120E911-14D1-13A2-9FD12CE802040CC0 Betrayal is much too kind. Treason is more like it. And Congress is at least as culpable as the Whitehouse.nnThe American war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan are designed to subsidize the 21st century profits of Big Oil while also enriching the military industrial complex. Congress takes marching orders from these monsters and 151 members of Congress hold investments in the MIC. However corporate imperialism and militarism are destroying both our republic and our economy to say nothing of about a million dead Iraqis and unknown number of Afghans. Opps...I forgot...we don’t do body counts ! The far-reaching costs (now in the trillions) of these crimes against humanity are being socialized throughout our society and the world and are largely responsible for rising energy prices and inflation/recession. And if they keep it up much longer the dollar won’t be “worth a continental” as creating additional fiat currency to fund war is a dead end. nnAn interesting overview of the “war on terror” and American imperial designs written by another Montanan can be found at: nnhttp://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/31/2886/nnAn Empire Can Be Terribly Expensive 2008-06-26 23:37:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 JConrad 4.163.201.110 C887431F-14D1-13A2-9FF9EC6CC44F69B4 A41C7928-14D1-13A2-9F69EEF56C5A7228 Nathan,nSpeaking of facts - while China may have barely surpassed the U.S. in annual greenhouse gas production, they have 5 times as many people. The U.S. is still by far the largest per capita polluter. The damage wrought by American greed and wastefulness is even larger when one considers historic production since the beginning of the industrial revolution - global warming is a cumulative effect. Nice try, but your science grade is an F! 2008-03-19 13:32:30.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Lawrence 206.74.37.226 C89A6839-14D1-13A2-9F927EDB24F10217 BA3318C2-14D1-13A2-9F57B375F3AF33AB Al - You might want to give Writers on the Range in this edition a read. It’s titled Dirty politics -- why clean coal is an oxymoron. The column deals primarily with Schweitzer’s clean coal rap, but is fully applicable to anything Roy Brown has to say. 2008-10-04 10:04:34.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ochenski 206.127.120.63 C8A56135-14D1-13A2-9F70BFB559FED508 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Jeff:nnMy husband will either laugh or feel much older than he really is when I show him your comment. That’s because my HUSBAND was mayor of Salt Lake City at one time. My Dad was a traveling salesman who dealt in industrial chemicals. We’re all about accuracy here at CW, so felt I had to correct you. 2008-03-19 14:05:24.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Holly Mullen 207.135.131.234 C8A5D1E9-14D1-13A2-9FA668C3E1002598 7526C412-14D1-13A2-9F3E0FAC81722C67 Oh man, remember that hot summer saturday night when we just drove up and down state street like a big white bird in your parents suburban. Man, we didn’t get laid, and no one would buy us beer. But damn we sang Tesla all the way back to Sandy. nnCircus, I know you were riding shotgun that night. Just admit it. 2008-08-15 17:14:15.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Chowder 76.115.101.163 C8BEDD90-14D1-13A2-9FC0FDCF3AFB1398 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E It’s the Towners who are active LDS, not the Millers’s neighbors. Re-read Captain Mark’s post. 2008-03-19 14:33:14.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Anonymous 165.130.136.210 C8BFB7EC-14D1-13A2-9F1D429C3625F31F B501D47F-14D1-13A2-9F2E2A372B83D0F7 David: It seems common sense to understand that the baby’s body and the woman carrying the baby’s body is two separate bodies. Right? So now that we are past that common sense issue, there is the matter when life begins? Life begins as soon as that little 4 chambered heart starts beating. That as well is common sense. It is a sad sad thing for both the woman who is aborting and the abortionee (made up word). We should educate people on what abortion consists of even after the abortion and what actually is done during an abortion. When I was 15 a neighbor had a Beta tape with an actual abortion conducted. Scared me to death but scared me straight. 2008-10-04 10:45:19.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Anon 208.66.8.130 C8CDFCEF-14D1-13A2-9F0B92C170AEFC3B C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E I think the underlying content of the article is the arrogance of Mrs. Miller. Mrs. Miller believes she is above the law because of her position. I know Mr. Zielinski personally and he has spoke with me about this problem. He tried to deal with the problem neighbor to neighbor but was threatened by Mrs. Miller stating “ do you know who I am”. Mrs. Miller has never prosecuted a felony case and I believe to this day has not prosecuted a felony case. She is not qualified to be the District Attorney and the voters made a huge mistake and disservice to the residence of Salt Lake County by electing her. Mrs. Miller has run a large number of very good attorneys out of her office. She has implemented a hiring process of hiring her friends who are for the most part not qualified to do the jobs they have been assigned. Mrs. Miller ran out the Chief investigator for the District Attorney’ Office and brought in a new chief with an inflated salary. I believe she raised the new chiefs salary to approx. $118.000.00 an increase of approx. $30.000.00 a year more than the previous chief. Not bad for a person who supervises approx. fifteen to twenty people. I believe that salary is more that most police chiefs make in the valley. Mrs. Miller has brought discredit the District Attorney’ Office not only with her personal life but her arrogance as a so called professional. I am a police officer and I hope Mrs. Miller doesn’t run for office again but if she does I hope she isn’t foolish enough to use the “ask a cop” statement again. 2008-03-19 14:49:45.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 anon 71.213.18.109 C8CE3ED8-14D1-13A2-9FA66517FE2B1CE4 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E You may have to log in to myspace to view this page. This is a comment from DA Lohra Miller’s son David admiring a bong.nhttp://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewnImage&friendID=232583373&albumID=0&imageID=5944121 2008-03-19 14:50:02.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 anonymous 75.169.132.109 C8D4D1F6-14D1-13A2-9FCBE901E52245EC C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E On this page, David Miller talks about quitting smokingnnhttp://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewComments&nfriendID=232583373&MyToken=491717d1-a1fe-4861-ab70-e9109646e6c1 2008-03-19 14:57:13.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 anonymous 75.169.132.109 C8D949E3-14D1-13A2-9F30B62D85FD21F9 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E On this page, David Miller talks about ... well, the following:nhomey niznick this one time at mah C-R-to-tha-izzib chad n i gots so drizzay thizzat we could not even walk R-to-tha-izzight n chad had some thing in his eye so he cryed like a shawty beyotch n i was all like hey chad suck mah dizzick n he said well i would read yo story but there is some thing in mah eye n thiznen nizzext he read mah story n he really started ta fuck’n S-to-tha-izzuck mah dick like no jizzy he really sucked mah dick n i really hizzy had too much ta drizzink but anyways chad was so shit faced he could not even find his fizzle so baller T-H-to-tha-izzat he started ta wizzalk ta mah left thizzay he started ta turn off tha lights n every one was all like chad fuck’n stizzop thiznat or i will fuck tha shiznit out of you then chad started ta cry coz he is a shawty beyotch n i would not textalize tha tiznext n brotha he gots dizzy cry’n like a shawty dick brotha nizzle has nigga in his nose so he picked them n now he is perpetratin’ them oh shit nizzle why am i writ’n this ta you wizzy you is trippin’ rizzight next ta me fuck younnSee it for yourself:nhttp://comment.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewnComments&friendID=13020984&MyToken=92a5580d-a858-44da-b3bf-4cd9187570a2 2008-03-19 15:02:06.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 anonymous 75.169.132.109 C8DFF25D-14D1-13A2-9FFCA7D8F870B880 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E If kids are having parties in their parent’s home on a regular basis and the parent’s don’t do anything to stop it, then the parents tacitly approve. This is not an issue of a kid stepping out of line occasionally. It would have been over my dead body to have my kids host parties like that all hours of the night. No way would they be allowed to have alcohol at a party wtih teenagers. Disturbing my neighbors after a reasonable hour is out of the question, it’s just common courtesy. The bottom line is the Millers know all this and they obviously don’t give a shit. She was elected to uphold the laws, all laws, just not the ones she picks and chooses.nnAnd really, operating a business in a home without a business license? She should have known better. Again, thumbing her nose at rules she doesn’t want to abide by.nnPersonally, I think she’s a skank, but that’s just my opinion. I don’t believe she is the right person for her elected job and sure as hell did not vote for her. I’d like to have someone in that office with just a little integrity. And that’s what this little story is really all about. Lohra’s lack of integrity. 2008-03-19 15:09:22.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 shakerosalt 76.164.31.178 C8E378AF-14D1-13A2-9F72462AD462B659 C40E7288-14D1-13A2-9FF1720E4BCA0536 Unfortunately the LDS Church runs into the same problem that any large organization does, which is the fact that no decision will be acceptable to all. If they take a more proactive approach to the environment, then some will love them and if they hold back and let members figure it our for themselves, then they will be criticized for being behind the curve. It is a tough balancing at to speak out on important issues, but not so often that people tune out or think they are being political. Whether you think they are proactive enough comes down to how important you think an issue is. 2008-05-08 08:16:00.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Oh Boy 72.8.68.181 C8E70E4C-14D1-13A2-9FF641163DC10879 B92AE5A2-14D1-13A2-9FC66EFC2ED42152 Wisdom in what? From all the books and newspapers she reads? Wisdom in her lack of knowing what the Bush Doctrine is, or what the supreme court does? Wisdom because she can almost see Russia from her backyard. Give me a break. I have never seen so many people glorify stupidity and anti-intellectualism like conservatives do. I think most people here, who are commenting on such a disgrace being nominated, to be the second most powerful person in our country is done out of shear, jaw dropping disgust, not jealously. She is a tool, only being used to sweep up numbers of Neo- Cons, who hate any sort of skeptical thinking and were a little uneasy about McCain’s (because he use to sit a little to close to the left for any religious nut bags comfort) nomination in the first place. To think that Palin is capable of running our country if McCain dies is fucking scary. I don’t want another person who doesn’t READ and use critical thinking anywhere near the White house. Why is stupidity so charming to all you Palin loving fools? Haven’t we seen enough damage from having a president who talks and thinks like an eighth grader? 2008-10-04 11:28:17.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nugget 67.161.249.83 C8ECAF0B-14D1-13A2-9FF77DCF8D4C4660 B9075B94-14D1-13A2-9FB8BF6AA98AD08A Lisbet, nYour are a disgusting human being. I hope to God your genitals don’t work properly. The world doesn’t need anymore intolerant, flesh bags like yourself. 2008-10-04 11:34:26.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nugget 67.161.249.83 C8FADA06-14D1-13A2-9F52B61C3A872489 C7FDC39A-14D1-13A2-9FEC69CAE57B3D59 Byzantine liquor laws? Lifted right from the Washington Post article about Salt Lake City and its night life. 2008-03-19 15:38:45.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 George 70.57.92.187 C903B2D9-14D1-13A2-9F8089982E920D78 BDC811D6-14D1-13A2-9F02D64B39E5A98E What kind of name is Ha!??? Are you by any chance related to Nelson Muntz of the Simpsons? Ha ha! Smell ya later. 2008-08-15 18:56:47.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Kiwi 118.92.129.90 C914FC71-14D1-13A2-9F0DE98CEBFE9A3D C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Well said, shakerosalt. Just ask Kent Morgan about Lohra’s integrity. Harrumph! 2008-03-19 16:07:18.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Delroy Wilson 24.2.82.243 C9232390-14D1-13A2-9F2DDD4657726E85 B9075B94-14D1-13A2-9FB8BF6AA98AD08A Stop it everyone! Let’s just remember that the issue is about human rights being suppressed for a certain portion of our population. If this country truely claims to be free then why are so many people denied that right on a daily basis? nName calling and bashing are no way to get a point across.nChill out! 2008-10-04 12:33:55.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Anon 67.41.174.13 C92781D5-14D1-13A2-9FF18F6E87D2EF6F C570F83C-14D1-13A2-9FBC17D21C4F9709 George, my wife and I and our two kid (who are over 12) have been putting in for an application every year for 4 years now and have never been picked. Yes, I do have a major problem with the state keeping $100 each year we don’t get selected--especailly when they can’t even get around to spending the $340K in the account now. And the carry out idea is absurd. 2008-05-08 09:30:19.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Never Picked 69.144.128.50 C96FB791-14D1-13A2-9FF6558185405A65 B9075B94-14D1-13A2-9FB8BF6AA98AD08A To Anon: Thanks for putting me back on the subject. Larry Craig did nothing for Gay Rights, and is disgusting. So a little ridicule is in order. Hopefully the public will see the difference between a healthy gay relationship vs Mr Craigs dysfunction. The attacks on Mamba are lame, and Lisbet’s hatred obvious. So what is the motive? I feel it’s the same old, same old, disrespect of free agency. 2008-10-04 13:57:33.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Blog Patrol 71.199.49.126 C9740530-14D1-13A2-9F60DEE818DCE875 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Holly, I think that this is brave journalism.  I know that some people find that it may be sensationalistic but I found that the story was written with restraint and objectivity. I still think it’s a bit unfortunate that anyone has to resort to a private eye. As to Captain Mark, I appreciate your honesty in your dealings with your daughters and only wish that Miller could have the same honesty with herself. You are a better person that she is but she is in public office. I have this idealistic notion that they be held to a high standard because our community deserves high standards (regardless of political affiliation).nnWhat is distubring and troubling to me is the possibility that firearms were laid out where toddlers/children could have access to them. It shows a brazen disregard for responsible behavior. nnAs for the Wasatch Property Management, it seems that all 15 employees should have their tax returns audited in addition to the company’s. That should take care of any future indiscretions.nnIs this the person I want representing Salt Lake County? The best thing to do is to vote her out. We voted her in (although she did not get my vote) and as a democracy we sometimes have to live with our decisions without the luxury of voter’s remorse. 2008-03-19 17:51:06.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 MC 172.190.208.28 C97950F4-14D1-13A2-9FD71C5FB88391ED C5161A4F-14D1-13A2-9FCE207E7932EF3F DUDE, it’s Smokey Bear.nnSaying Smokey the Bear is like saying Santa the Claus. 2008-05-08 10:59:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 fire chica 75.104.101.125 C97A7A66-14D1-13A2-9F056E5616345967 C7FDC39A-14D1-13A2-9FEC69CAE57B3D59 Poor Alex,nnSend him some issues of Redrock Wilderness (SUWA) and a copy of `No Man Knows My History` (Fawn Brodie). Utah is the happy hunting ground for the abnormal and deranged. 2008-03-19 17:58:10.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 chardonnay 69.228.95.191 C97E26FE-14D1-13A2-9F18E03A52161B11 C40E7288-14D1-13A2-9FF1720E4BCA0536 So, wait, in the liberal rag, we have Holly extolling LDS people to be more earth friendly by having their leaders encourage sustainable use of resources...while writers and commentators here, and in other SL publications, ask the Church to stay the hell out of their lives, esp. as it applies to politics. Oh this is all too convenient.nnOnce again, you can’t have it both ways: It’s either okay for the LDS Church to tell it’s people what their politics should be, or it’s not okay. Take your pick, folks. 2008-05-08 11:04:58.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ha! 204.113.19.10 C98537E7-14D1-13A2-9F074BC5771F4C5E C40E7288-14D1-13A2-9FF1720E4BCA0536 To Ha!--I don’t know about everyone else but I’m an active LDS person that thinks the church doesn’t have to either stay in or stay all the way out of social issues. I’ve never thought they should stay out of things that could make a positive difference in the world.nnI do think the church has been too involved in the gay issue. To me, I’d rather see them get involved in the environment if they decided to choose. Two men being in love or two women being in love poses a lot less danger in my opinion than pollution of the air we all have to breathe or food shortages worldwide because there are too many people on the planet. 2008-05-08 11:12:41.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nicky 207.135.131.234 C98DCA2A-14D1-13A2-9FACC424071BD45D B9075B94-14D1-13A2-9FB8BF6AA98AD08A Very true Anon. Juvenile name calling does nothing for the progression of equality, my bad.nnI want Lisbit to give a reasonable, rational explanation to his/her thoughts on why gay marriage is so unacceptable. Where is the rational thinking in comparing two, consenting adults to a child being raped by an adult? How about a logical, well-thought answer, instead of a bunch of one-liners? Tell us Lisbit, why do you care? How does it truly affect your life? And how is gay marriage the same as pedophilia and beastiality? 2008-10-04 14:30:24.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nugget 67.161.249.83 C9A5181C-14D1-13A2-9F88BE81D46344ED C813F630-14D1-13A2-9FC186FF2204DE43 Hey, nice. Good to see the investment has paid off. Maybe it’s time to move over Bill. (John) 2008-03-19 18:44:42.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 SLCW 24.2.70.203 C9AA0219-14D1-13A2-9FB11E1CE066FA12 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Does ANYONE actually realize that ANYWHERE else in the country, this is neighborhood gossip b.s.? Honestly! Since when are public officials thought to be, as one blogger stated, better than the rest of us (or something close - please just stop yourself now, I don’t care if I misquoted you by a word or two). Why does no one in Utah scrutinize the life of our coke-snorting, Cuervo-guzzling President. The leader of the free world can’t even complete an educated sentence without Dick Cheney’s hand shoved up his rear.nnBut I digress...nYes, LM should probably slap her kids around a little more (as long as the PI doesn’t see) and those kids should probably respect their parents’ place in the public eye enough to stop being dipsh*ts; but this really applies to many in Utah, local celebrity or not. I’m sure at least one of you out there have a bishop whose kid is a complete disaster. Give it up. There is a lot of imperfection out there. Look in the mirror.nnAdditionally, why is it Holly, that you make it sound like prosecuting criminals in Salt Lake is such an atrocity? How dare the DA’s office want a staff to keep up with the rapidly growing crime here in our pristine, holy city? This is remarkable, really. The mayor and the police force can’t seem to abate the crime and abhorrent drug issues in a city with a WHOPPING population of 200,000. Heaven forbid those dirtbags who actually get caught doing something to hurt our communities, or waste our tax dollars, have America’s democratic and fair legal system inflicted on them. Perhaps we should do away with the whole thing, can LM and just decapitate the thieves and drug dealers in town square, guilty or not. nnMy opinion on the level of journalism displayed in the acclaimed Salt Lake City Weekly is really inconsequential, as most journalists are the equivalent of most politicians. I think you know what I mean....nnPoint is people, don’t just sit there and complain. If you really care, first, care about some real issues, and then, do something to change them. Apathy and sloth at a keyboard gets nothing accomplished.nnKristen Chandler 2008-03-19 18:50:04.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Please care about something important... 67.166.64.112 C9C2C2BF-14D1-13A2-9F310E8D0C1238CE A0CC56AE-14D1-13A2-9F241FE501074E21 I’ve posted a response to Matthew’s comment here: nnhttp://www.bigskycoalition.org/2008/04/news-about-fire-suppression-meeting.html 2008-05-08 12:19:54.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 BSC Webmaster 12.213.224.38 C9D7B336-14D1-13A2-9FA128E150AE6A6F 9C1B9F58-14D1-13A2-9F0A483FCAB3951E I just wanted to say that The Black Monday Society (along with all the other real-supers out there) that you are doing an awesome job. However, as excited as I am to join the ranks, I’m persuing more training in the marine corps. When I get out (praying I’m still alive :) look out world, Guardian Shield will be defending justice and liberty with the rest of you! 2008-05-08 12:42:46.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Guardian Shield 13.8.137.11 C9E989C0-14D1-13A2-9F23E19B35517AD4 C7DD8AA1-14D1-13A2-9F36E62BF82CA06A Steven Spielberg never attended USC. 2008-03-19 19:59:28.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 french kittie 64.60.131.106 C9ECC11C-14D1-13A2-9F57211F7B340823 C4056F80-14D1-13A2-9F2B3A253CB6075F You got it so right, John. The continuing saga of Utah liquor laws is a face ad infinitum. I wrote my family about the changes. They live in Minnesota. Some call it God’s country. My e-mail went out a week ago. They’re still laughing.nnThe Mormon church has got to get out of the liquor business. How else will we retain any kind of sanity? Someone needs to invite Monson on a tour of private clubs, buy him a coupla rounds, get him tipsy and show him the blissfulness of good liquor!nnCome morning he’ll sing our praises and tell the church-controlled legislature to remove the bonds.nnOh, how I dream.nnGreat column, John 2008-05-08 13:05:46.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 tjtibbs 75.169.80.12 CA066941-14D1-13A2-9F960C5647745406 C570F83C-14D1-13A2-9FBC17D21C4F9709 Good Article George.nnEd Tinsley needs to be removed from office. Cannot trust the guy. Too many under-the-table deals going on with him. He really hasn’t done anything for Lewis & Clark County. Just ask folks from around Augusta and Lincoln. They are pretty fed up with him. Lots of bull speak but no action. One of Schweitzers buddies, looking only to further his political career. The County’s Public voted, overwhelmingly, down a new Seattle/Spokane looking fairgrounds and wanted to use the Historic Race Track and have more of a local feel to the fairgrounds. Tinsley thot he knew better than anybody else and decided the voters can’t think for themselves. So now they’re tearing down a beautiful historic race track and are going to put up a statue of a horse along with nothing that looks like a County Fairgrounds. Should put Tinsley’s face on the statue’s butt. He a sneaky one friends...watch out! 2008-05-08 13:33:47.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Nathan 161.7.2.160 CA0C08F3-14D1-13A2-9FC6342B1430873F 5BCF28B9-14D1-13A2-9F0D48705CA9B35C D-O-R-K 2008-08-15 23:45:31.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 PANCHO VILLA 71.195.222.149 CA0DA5C0-14D1-13A2-9FDC231D2736D5E2 C08F7F9D-14D1-13A2-9F5A8B6C7103A46E American youths and innocent civilians continue to die in an unjustifiable war. Greed leads to gas prices climbing into the stratosphere. Millions of innocents die of still uncured viruses. Religion- and ethnic-induced hatreds rage worldwide. Poverty runs amok and the poor starve. Yet when the Mormon God speaks, he speaks out against two people who love each other and want to express that love in a committed formal way. 2008-06-27 06:44:29.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Kid Kolob 199.64.0.252 CA237339-14D1-13A2-9F20395A9720A6F6 C4056F80-14D1-13A2-9F2B3A253CB6075F I know I am a dumb ass, and I think that gives me a good perspective on life and relations with the world. nBoozer needs to quit posing in the mirror telling himself he is great and giving his little wink and start giving some hard fouls and taking the ball to the hoop.nSpeaking of booze--I think I’ll stick with beergarita’s you can have your chelada’s 2008-05-08 14:05:31.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Burke 70.103.105.75 CA4D1548-14D1-13A2-9F22968F5C783DC0 C558F59C-14D1-13A2-9FA65103CAC1ADB7 It will be interesting to see what happens when hunters are forced to choose between the Republican-leaning NRA and the Democrat-leaning environmentalists. Which will be more important - their guns or having something left to shoot? 2008-05-08 14:50:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Lawrence 206.74.37.226 CA58D419-14D1-13A2-9F7157663C6E92B8 BA3318C2-14D1-13A2-9F57B375F3AF33AB That is exactly my point. Give ole Roy a raft of shit. I think Schweitzer is the greatest Governor since heck was a pup. As an avid outdoorsman I am a company man. Lets see Schweitzer win by 40 points! Developing coal is a sideline that may lead to big bucks for Montana. 2008-10-04 18:12:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Al V. 69.144.66.55 CA5B1F4C-14D1-13A2-9FB06A5C726359E9 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Mark Towner comeing to Lohra Miller’s aid. Kinda like Saddam Hussein coming to Hitler’s defense. Would it change minds? 2008-03-19 22:03:32.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Michael Aaron 24.10.242.39 CA5BF024-14D1-13A2-9F896D0A6A9A0B30 C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Sorry for the typo. 2008-03-19 22:04:25.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Michael Aaron 24.10.242.39 CA5C7B78-14D1-13A2-9F97D8E298830021 C7DD8AA1-14D1-13A2-9F36E62BF82CA06A Spielberg never graduated college. He was an English major for a short time at Cal State Long Beach. He didn’t have the grades to get into USC (though he desperately wanted to). He wasn’t 25 yet when he directed DUEL.nnDon’t write stuff and publish it unless you know what you’re talking about. 2008-03-19 22:05:01.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Amy Irving 72.134.17.154 CA5D3E7A-14D1-13A2-9FEFDCE17C771592 B501D47F-14D1-13A2-9F2E2A372B83D0F7 What the hell is Beta? 2008-10-04 18:17:00.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 David 24.47.159.27 CA60159C-14D1-13A2-9FA7B497FCC6E86C C40E7288-14D1-13A2-9FF1720E4BCA0536 I gotta disagree with your (and Deeda Steeds) statment that Mormons are very concerned with the environment. As a whole, they are not. I no longer attend that church but recall many conversations that were certainly not environmally friendly in the least. Conversations involving things like conservation and sustainability tend to evoke the usual fascist remark still. I see my neighbors drive to church every sunday in their SUVs, mini vans and double cab trucks. nnI do know a few Mormons who care about the environment, including my parents. However, they aren’t the norm. 2008-05-08 15:11:44.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 indygirl 166.70.44.209 CA75B25D-14D1-13A2-9FB39F303D09F05E BCD0F027-14D1-13A2-9F2D8F192321328C Yes, It is agency, the ability to choose to be happy to live a happy life with whatever person you please to choose.. No wait that isnt exactly possible because um some people and churches are putting all their efforts and time into taking that free agency away from certain individuals. And I have to laugh cause isn’t that what Satan wanted to do in the beginning, take away our free agency.............. 2008-08-16 01:40:55.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Justin 24.10.240.243 CA840342-14D1-13A2-9F2DB1AF5BACBEC8 7CC37ACF-14D1-13A2-9F79711025A5FCCB To the person who lived in Pinesdale for a year when they were 8.... Although I don’t know who exactly who you are, you’re right, it’s not difficult to figure out what family you are from. You have every right to be bitter and angry at how people treated your grandfather and his kids; they certainly were the black sheep of the community. I went to school with your uncle and I have always been haunted by how he and his family were treated. I’ve spoken to my siblings and friends about how awful we acted both individually and as a community and we are very ashamed. It’s too little too late and nothing can change the mean things we did as kids, but I want you to know that I am deeply sorry (and have been for years) for being unkind to your family. You’re right. Where your family was concerned, Pinesdale did suck.n G Allsop 2008-05-08 15:50:59.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 You’re Right .... 208.186.134.104 CAB1E801-14D1-13A2-9F7AF7E6114EABF5 B955052B-14D1-13A2-9F4C637BF12BFD66 Ted, you just gave a better shout out to El Polo Loco, then you did the Mayan.... Maybe you should stick to what you know best, Fast Food! And leave the real dinning, and eating out, to those who have enough class to appreciate it. 2008-10-04 19:49:28.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Food lover 67.166.125.39 CAC44AEF-14D1-13A2-9F20600A88BA911A C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E Michael Aaron’ SummarynnMarketing and branding, especially on the internet.nMarketing to the gay and lesbian community.nProject management of large and innovative websites.nMichael Aaron’ Specialties:nnProject management, web development, publishing, pre-press, graphic design, branding, identity, small group leadership, arbitrationnMichael Aaron’ Experiencenn *n Editor/Publishern QSaltLakenn (Privately Held; 1-10 employees; Newspapers industry)nn January 2004 — Present (4 years 3 months)nn QSaltLake is Utah’s gay and lesbian newspaper, published twice monthly. Salt Lick Publishing, LLC also publishes event programs, playbills, and other advertising tabloids. It also publishes TheQPages, a gay and lesbian phone directory serving the Salt Lake City metropolitan area. 2008-03-19 23:58:24.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 anonymous 98.202.14.87 CACB78D8-14D1-13A2-9F1EEB1891E03118 9C7A4278-14D1-13A2-9F4E13977C752CA6 Most of The Ocho are insidid drivel.nn*sighs* 2008-06-27 10:11:49.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gabi 67.172.227.105 CADA1577-14D1-13A2-9F5580D97C44882B C3D50210-14D1-13A2-9F4D2E8F29B7FD5E At 1st blush, reading the article, I knew she was not a morman. Too bad more folks did not go through Joseph Smith’s trash to know the original plural marriage person, within the morman religion. Many ugly secrets, within the people. However the persecution of non mormans, in your community seems celebrated. I veiw this as character assasination and is in total conflict of Christ. 2008-03-20 00:22:12.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Ginger 130.94.123.98 CB2F0231-C912-7497-575F83FFAA1DAA61 A8384229-C8AF-C3F6-5E1DCEBEE2B3ECFD Dave, the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is not in charge of the logging on the Bitterroot project. The logging unit pictured in the pdf was under contract and logged by Rocky Mountain Log Homes. They have sub-contracted with the RMEF for doing some slashing of brush and smaller trees on part of the project and I think this is what you were thinking of.nnRegardless, comparing the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and their $50.9 million in assets (as of their 2005 tax return) with the WildWest Institute’s approximately $50,000 budget really only gets you so far. I’m an elk hunter and while I think some of the stuff the elk foundation does is great for elk, there are also plenty of things the RMEF does that I don’t believe are in the ultimate best interest of elk or wildlife, even if it might be in the best interest of their significant bottom line. nnIf the WildWest Institute had $51 million in our bank account I’m sure we could throw it around and buy up some conservation easements too. But as it stands, we are just a small, grassroots environmental group with about 1,000 members doing the best work we can to protect and restore public lands here in the northern Rockies.nnYou ask, I assume somewhat sarcastically, how many acres of wildlife habitat we have protected. That’s a good question, and like I said, since we lack the multi-million bank account, we go about our work quite differently than the RMEF, but the success we have speaks for itself. For example, if you are looking at prime elk habitat on national forest lands, look no further than our roadless and Wilderness areas throughout the western US. Our organization has worked for nearly 20 years to protect roadless wildlands on our national forests, including epic battles to stop massive logging and roadbuilding projects in prime elk habitat such as the Cove-Mallard area on the Nez Perce NF in Idaho. In fact, it was because of battles over places like Cove-Mallard that the roadless area protection rule was established in 2001, thereby protecting nearly 60 million acres of roadless areas around the country, including nearly 15 million acres of prime elk habitat here in Montana and Idaho. Also, over the years, through the public process, we have helped protect tens of thousands of acres of prime wildlife habitat from misguided logging and roadbuilding projects on every national forest in the northern Rockies. nnAnd as long as you don’t tell anyone, I’ll let you in on a little secret. Based on my elk hunting experience I’ve noticed that elk really like to spend time in recently burned forests, anywhere from year 1 to year 10 after the fire. In fact, my hunting buddies and I seek out this type of landscape and have come home successful time and again. Since it’s clear that environmentalists such as myself are 100% responsible for any and all fires on national forest lands, does that also mean that we can take credit for helping to create a few million acres of prime elk habitat every summer? If so, add it to our total. 2008-01-30 07:52:11.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Matthew Koehler 71.37.190.154 CB2F876B-1372-FCBB-83703495A4556E0A AF4A2AAF-1372-FCBB-8306DA220FA6164F CB2418EB-1372-FCBB-83B3A3A8CA247D04 Chef Ari,nnThanks so much for your commitment to the early season elk hunt in the Rattlesnake.nnIt’s not often that a wilderness hunt can help improve urban wildlife management, but that’s the case with the Rattlesnake hunt.nnThe elk that summer in the Rattlesnake winter in the North Hills between Butler Creek and the Rattlesnake. When the herd was first studied 25 years ago, it had four dozen elk. Now it has 300 or more and is doubling every 6.7 years. There’s only so much winter range, and it doesn’t double as the elk herd does.nnThe early hunt is one attempt to help control the herd’s growth.nnThanks for making the hikes, taking in the views, and trying to bag a cow elk.nnBert LindlernNorth Hills Elk and Weed Volunteern(more info at http://www.mhfj.org/MissoulaElkHerds/Index.htm) 2007-10-22 22:47:10.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 CB41434A-B598-386A-1E21097D0955DDF2 A8384229-C8AF-C3F6-5E1DCEBEE2B3ECFD And so in 10 years, when the dead trees fall down and pile up to create an area impassable to both man and beast, can we subtract those areas from your total as well. nnI’ll let you in on a little secret too Matthew. I’ve been an elk hunter in Montana for close to 30 years now. I’ve discovered that clear cuts are a great place to find elk as well and I don’t even like clear cuts. I’m not real fond of thousand acre burned to a crisp areas either. I’m guessing the RMEF is involved with the Bitterroot project because it believes that it will create good habitat for elk. Apparently you think they are just trying to protect their bottom line. nnIf I remember their story correctly, they began as three guys sitting around a kitchen table talking about a dream. Seems like that’s about as grassroots as it gets. The difference between your organization and theirs is thousands of people bought into their dream. I think their record since then stands on its own. 2008-01-30 08:12:07.0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Dave 71.32.213.127 CB46C496-14D1-13A2-9FD5E7E805160C84 B95BBFC0-14D1-13A2-9F1052B5FCA610BA Ex List (8:00 p.m. Fri. MST) is THE worst. We in our family are requesting you remove this show immediately. Since when are you allowing an R’ rated show to air at this hour. This is allowing adult porn to come into American homes. I dread that many of our country’s under age youth stumbled on to this smut last night. Are you trying to down-grade the quality of this nation to even below gutter level? The swave actors and actresses had a very sexy message that a gullible viewer could easily incorporate. We

 

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Make no mistake, Rick Koerber’s feeble little ’empire’ is on its last legs and this is his last ditch effort to scam people before he’s force to move to another part of the country and tries it all again. nnRemember that he’s struggled with Securities violations and bankruptcy five years ago in Wyoming. Now it’s happened here. He can’t afford to pay his ’workers.’ His last resort is to charge $5,000 for a scam he has no intention of supporting. nnThe funny part of this is that his company put hundreds of people into foreclosure by not keeping the original promise made when they paid $7,000 the first time around. nnThe cycle is almost complete!nnAnyone who has been burned by this man needs to do everything they can to insure others don’t get the same treatment. Anyone with half a brain can figure out how to get out of foreclosure for FREE. Don’t get sucked in. Don’t drink the ’Constitutional Cause of Freedom’ Kool-aid. nnI drank the Kool-Aid and I’m paying for it now. Rick and his cute, unintelligent, cable installer minions will love you when you sign the check. When you lose everything because their lastest scam goes awry, they strangely want nothing to do with you. nnLook at their history. Do the research. Grow a brain.

 

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What is missing from Unquiet’s comment is two glaring details. First, the whole article here suggests that Mr. Kerber is acting inappropriately by teaching others how to avoid foreclosure while the home he lives in (even though it is not owned by him) is in the foreclosure process. The point I think Mr. Kerber makes is that many people might be able to learn from his knowledge. How many people know how to even buy themselves more time to get a problem with a loan resolved with a lender. This looks like valuable information to me. As the housing crises gets more severe I imagine that more people might be looking into this kind of training. But the second most glaring omission is the fact that a lender for Mr. Joseph postponed the sale. Now why would they do that? No one acts randomly in situations like this. Think about the implication and you’ll see why Unquiet is missing the point. Finally, I notice that a lot of Mr. Kerber’s critics don’t like to leave their names. I find it numerous that Unquiet (whoever he or she is) is afraid of Mr. Kerber. The guilty flee when none pursueth. Time will tell people. Time will tell.

 

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People choose to not leave their names because Rick will take a portion of his $21,000 monthly legal budget and sue the hell out of them.nnBesides, it’s fun to rile up the guy. I can honestly say that I laugh out loud every time my anonymous posts piss the man off so much that he responds with his obvious bullshit lines -- I did nothing wrong! It’s the fault of those who paid $7,000! They didn’t do what I said! nnRick, I paid my $7,000 directly to you. I handed the check right over to your chubby little hand. You took it happily, then proceeded to not keep a single promise you made in the numerous ’seminars’ you spoke at.nnWhatever. I paid, I trusted, I worked and I lost.nnThe best principle that anyone out there looking to pay to Mr. Koerber - don’t give your hard-earned money to people who have scammed others in the past - driving them to foreclosure or bankruptcy. nnAnd to rebut Rick’s lie that all of Rick’s employees have been paid -- Rick it’s a well know business principle that unhappy employees talk. You have unhappy employees. They are talking.

 

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I am related to a former employee of Rick. I won’t say his name (or mine) because this person was convinced to roll over some of a holding company debt into shares of Rick’s next scheme. I had many conversations and was told by my relative I don’t know what to do I’d like to leave but if I try to he will take my money like he has done to so many others and so on.nKoerber is a bad man. I have two good friends who took the Buyer course, received NO EDUCATION other than a two line book list they did not read and a 30 minute internet video clip and have since had homes go into foreclosure. I heard a tape recording that was made without the knowledge of Rik of one of Rik’s meetings with his buyers after his companies stopped making payments where he assured everyone in the room time and time again that payments were coming.... just work with his new front man... resign documents extending the unpaid amounts and all will be okay in a matter of weeks. One person signed and was pushed off month after month all the while being told payment was coming right up until the house was taken away. The other person did not sign and was told by riks company that they will not pay the debts and she is on her own. nTo this day he is being sued by folks that lent his company money- former senor management of his companies- and he is denying his debts and weasling his way out...trying to outlast them in lawyer fees and proving money rules.nThe man is a crook. Want more proof contact any former member of his leadership team (Freestone, Hoops, or Anderson) or ask old partners. Get them to a quiet dinner where rik is absent and they will tell you the truth...they have done it to me.nRik is scary. He will lie to you face about money and bully anyone who speaks up. then one minute later boast about his religious standings. i would not call his actions honest with his fellow man but he must lie to them too. i have family still working with him and that is why I am not saying my family name.

 

 
 
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